This is a religious war not a land war.

This.

There are other reasons that the Christian Palestinian population decreased though - many would have fled to Christian countries during the Nakba.

👏 👏

I still believe that saving peoples lives is important. A temporary ceasefire might lead to a permanent one. To just not bother means more people continue to die. Aid increases during ceasefire also help people who don't have time to wait.

I don’t think a fairly short ceasefire is at all a genuine pledge to end violence.

I don't think even Hamas are conflating Israel with the worldwide Jewish community?

If Al Aqsa was overtaken by hardlinerals, I still don't equate it with the Jewish faith. I don't think the crazy settlers practice the Jewish faith other than in name and some rituals surely?

They do.have something to gain though, that more of their people dont die, or is that not Important enough to consider? That's a massive gain in my opinion. Probably not a gain for a scum terrorist though.

there is no need between Muslims and Jews? I think you are correct maybe in general but it is dangerous to avoid saying there is no beef between all Muluslims and Jews. It is may be an impossible challenge to separate human tribal nature from religion entirely (reformation anyone).

The big challenge going forward is to avoid Hamas aims of conflating Israel with the world wide Jewish community as being the subjects of animosity and an appeal for the world wide Muslim community to stand with them in this. I think the situation can be avoided but society and especially the media have a role in engineering the conditions for religious co existence (and it is a challenge as history more than amply shows).

Personally I would sadly say there are some neighbourhoods in the UK where being openly Jewish i.e. wearing Jewish religious regalia would be viewed as provocative and we have to think hard about how we have good relations here in the UK.

The Gaza conflict has presented real challenges to the Abrahamic religions as in theory the God is the same (now that is some discussion). When you have appeals to God from both sides in a conflict for victory from the relgious and it looks objectively like God is favouring one side (if it was God's will to have Israel have an advanced army) then you can see that brining real regions angst to the Muslim community. When a religion is based on everything being God's will then as I have said on another thread then the only response from the devout is that the Gaza conflict is a precursor to a defeat of the state of Israel (and sadly in some eyes that conflates with Judaism given the partially religious reasoning for the foundation of the modern state).

If Israel for instance was overtook by hardliners and the Am Asqa Mosque was transformed into a temple can we be quite honest and say there wouldn't be any impact on terms of Muslim /Jew relations.

Religion is such a heady mix in this that the main stream media quite rightly avoid mention of the faiths of the combatants as much as possible. It doesn't mean devious tensions don't exist but broadcasting them more widely in terms of this current conflict would be irresponsible in terms of us here in the thankfully peaceful UK.

Agree with the posters saying no historical beef between Jews and Muslims.

Israel has a massive problem in remaining The Jewish State in the sense of being a homeland for the majority of the diaspora who aren’t very religious.

The average secular Jew in Israel has just over 2 children (2.2 I think). Haredi Jews (the religious zealots) are averaging 6.2. In one sense this keeps Israel Jewish in the majority as the Israeli Arabs also have about 6 children per couple. On the other hand, though, it will become increasingly similar to the surrounding theocracies and no longer a liberal democracy.

This is a big problem with no obvious solution.

@inamarina ,

I don’t think any quarter should be given to Hamas, at least all the senior figures and anyone actually involved in 07/10. The rest should be offered a full amnesty as long as they agree to stopping the armed struggle.

What I believe Israel should have done is to properly invade and hold Gaza but with a view to re building it and returning it to the Palestinians on the condition of an elected government that supported living in peace with Israel (so Hamas and all Iranian allied parties banned from standing).

This is kind of what we tried to do in Iraq and Afghanistan but would be far easier in a small city state.

The way to peace is through both sides getting richer through trading with one another and being able to achieve their aspirations, like Germany after WW2.

I'm Jewish and I think people need to understand that there isn't some historical beef between Jews and Muslims; pre-Israel we really got on quite well and even worked very well and happily together such as in medeival Muslim Spain (unlike Christian Spain later!). @Echobelly

Pretty much this. For centuries up until WW2, Jews from Morocco to Persia were leading pretty good lives and they had absolutely no need or desire whatsoever to establish a Jewish homeland. They didn't need one and were not in the least bit interested in one. Every year they would say "Next year in Jerusalem"... but no one ever went through with it because life in Muslim countries wasn't too bad. However, in C20, Arab hatred of the British, who with the French had carved up the middle east for themselves, caused many, not all, Arab leaders to side with Hitler and life became far more difficult. With the formation of Israel a few years later, the die was cast and it's got progressively worse ever since and that hasn't been helped by the superpowers having their own agenda in the region.

I agree. With this - extremism in the Middle East is funded by Wahabists in the Arab emirates and some members of Hamas acting out horrors will use religion as a backdrop to this, but for the majority of Palestinians this is about having their land back. I'm Jewish and I think people need to understand that there isn't some historical beef between Jews and Muslims; pre-Israel we really got on quite well and even worked very well and happily together such as in medeival Muslim Spain (unlike Christian Spain later!).

Neither Palestinians nor Israeli Jews on the whole believe they should have the land 'because God said so'; they both lay claim to it for historical reasons. Most non-Orthodox Israels are irreligious as hell and I don't imagine Palestinians are mostly more religious than that either.

I'm not Jewish, but I struggle to see how these guys follow the Jewish faith properly - they seem like a bunch of nutcases twisting and using religion selectively to further their aims.

Surrender what? Their lives? Gaza as a land? All the Palestinians living in Gaza?

It’s certainly not “surrender” and both sides go back to a peaceful life.

I don’t know. I don’t know what would be considered acceptable by any of the parties involved.
What I do know though is that right now Hamas have nothing to gain on an individual level by surrendering. And people don’t tend to choose an option that doesn’t benefit them in some way.

So what would you suggest Israel could do? What kind of “way out” could they offer Hamas? Why do you think they’d agree to being imprisoned by someone else?

Release the hostages and surrender.
When did Hamas offer to surrender?

And yet neither Palestinian Christians or Muslims say this.

But October 7th did happen. Nothing anybody can do changes that. Much as we may want to you can’t go back in time and change it.
And then you could argue what caused October 7th in the first place. And so on it goes. As I said upthread you could argue till the end of time over who is a fault and who did what to whom. IT CHANGES NOTHING!

And whilst October 7th triggered this don’t pretend that Israel didn’t have choices here. Israel made the decision to massively escalate this. Self defence is one thing, killing innocent women and children, bombing schools, hospitals and refugee camps is something quite different.BOTH sides have done terrible things.

Hamas are not going to surrender. Why would they? Surrendering equals either being killed or imprisoned and probably tortured by the IDF. The only way Hamas surrender is if they are given some way out of this. It might not be particularly palatable for most but perhaps they should be given the option of surrendering to being imprisoned by someone other than Israel or the US. And Peacekeepers taking control of Gaza to protect both Israel and Palestinians.

May your village burn is another popular slogan that is not just a slogan but Palestinian villages are attacked and torched on a regular basis.

They chant it every year and Israel allows it to happen every year.

Why were Israelis chanting ‘death to Arabs’ in the demonstrations at the illegal settlements on the West Bank

I am Jewish but I don’t support Israel whatever they do.

Hamas should be destroyed and eliminated, no question.

But, the question I always ask my Jewish friends is where is your line in the sand with respect to Israel.

Can they destroy Gaza, expel the Palestinians and fully settle the West Bank and Jerusalem….because Hamas?!

Israeli people are not all Jews and Jews are not all Israeli or required to ‘support’ Israel regardless of what Israel does. Hopefully, moderate Muslims would also say the same about the various Palestinian factions.

It is not a game of football and a human being is a human being. What is happening at the moment is a religious war, on both sides and that bodes ill for both the Palestinians and the Jewish diaspora.

I agree that the proposal post 1st March was different to what was in the original agreement.

However, it's still true that phase I had ended and there was no automatic progression onto stage 2. Both sides were in limbo after stage 1 ended.

As it says in the article posted above, Netanyahu's office said that the initial deal allowed Israel to resume war at any moment after 1 March if negotiations were deemed ineffective.