Heartbreaking news report from Gaza - Dr receives bodies of her children

Sadly, many terrorist organisations have used child soldiers over the years. In Africa many terrorist groups use children as their soldiers. It's awful, but it's true and Hamas are no different to the other terrorist organisations.

If it’s ‘there’ please direct me to it if you’re not prepared to post links.

Otherwise I can only assume you are being disingenuous.

The warrant from the ICC is not evidence of anything and was obviously politically motivated.

It’s pretty much the same evidence wise as your non existent videos showing the IDF sniping kids.

It's there.
Just like the war crimes warrant from the ICC. Which also exists.

Why can’t you post links to videos you have stated you have SEEN which shows the IDF sniping children? Can’t see a post where you said you explained.

Child soldiers are not new. This Amnesty report goes back to 2004.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/mde150352004en.pdf

And this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_child_suicide_bombers_by_Palestinian_militant_groups

More recent:
https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-780613

https://cufi.org/issue/hamas-continues-recruiting-child-soldiers-where-is-the-condemnation/

https://www.atalayar.com/en/articulo/politics/israeli-palestinian-conflict-and-hamas-child-soldiers/20210512113126151157.amp.html

Sadly it seems a lot of pro-Palestinians don’t know or care about the heinous use of innocent children.

And the ICC of course.

Exactly what I mean.
I explained why I couldn't post links but I gave examples. Yesterday an American medic spoke to UN - this video is widely available. Also the Jon Snow interview.
I don't think this is a war. One side is wholly and vastly superior in all ways. That's not a war to me.
Yes, 55,000 people PEOPLE dead. PEOPLE.
What's your rationale for these figures being vastly inflated?
The highest number of child amputees in the world. The highest number of dead children.
Child soldiers?? That's a new one, haven't heard that on these threads before. If they are soldiers I suppose it's ok to kill them. Especially the ones under 12. 14? 16? 18?
Any wonder I have terrorist propaganda induced hysteria 😂😂😂 along with the VAST majority of the world's population.

Where is the video evidence of children executed by Israeli snipers on a daily basis?

Still not seen any links posted on here.

Why are people on here quoting 55k dead as if they are all ‘innocent civilians’ and not one combatant among them? That rather exposes your agendas and I’m not sure who you think you preaching to, you are in your own little echo chamber.

The terrorist propaganda induced hysteria is getting more and more ridiculous by the day.

Have you ever heard of a war where no combatants were killed?

The despicable use of child soldiers by Hamas means that they will also be included in the massively inflated casualty figures which are totally unverified by any unbiased source btw.

If said earlier, maybe even on a previous thread, that I have to believe some posters are bots.
I have posted on similar threads and have to ask several times that my words were not twisted or quoted incorrectly. The same posters had no issue claiming the same was happening to them. And this seemed to be the default argument.
Frankly I'm fed up of being accused of x,y and z. That I'm some WASP/mid centre European or Palestinian terrorist apologist. That I'm hanging all my angst out on Israel. I'm actually none of those of things and the majority of the world's population aren't either.
The terrorist act upon Israel was abhorrent.
Holding hostages is abhorrent.
Corralling people into a small enclosed area is abhorrent.
Bombing and shooting so that 55,000 people is killed is abhorrent.
Bombing residential areas, including tents, schools and hospitals is abhorrent.
Withholding aid is abhorrent. Ensuring that people don't have access to clean water is abhorrent.
Corralling starving people in barbwired lanes in the heat and making them wait is abhorrent. Shooting at them is abhorrent.
Destroying aid from other countries is abhorrent - food and infrastructure.
Shuttling people about in a constricted area is abhorrent.
Deny people exit for medical treatment is abhorrent.
Bring accused of war crimes is abhorrent.
Removing people from villages and replacing them with settlements is abhorrent.
Chanting mobs attacking ordinary people is abhorrent.
Healthcare staff being arrested and disappeared for year+ is abhorrent.
Medical staff being fired on when trying to work and killed is abhorrent.

I can't type any more.
Do I expect better from Israel? Yes I do. It PAINS me to see this. I'm in solidarity with Israelis who are speaking out, protecting, saying this too.

It's really not worth it @mids fortunately everyone doesn't think like that and realises that there are victims on both sides. I think that type of comment is why so few bother to engage anymore. The threads have very few posters now.

Have a great day.

Shocking that someone would make that comment. You can't engage with that level of ignorance.

October the 7th can be equated to a wide slapping her husband? Ah well.

Israel is not the victim in this - it was a victim after 7 October but after killing 55k people with circa 20k kids it lost any rights to victimhood. It is like a domestic abuser after murdering his wife saying but my wife slapped me first - it is a pure DARVO tactic, reverse victim and offender. No one on this thread has said anything remotely anti semitic that I have seen - some of the loudest voices against Israel are jewish - this is not about religion it is about ethnic cleansing, it is about the murder of children.

Before we get side tracked again just look at the testimonials, look at the video evidence - children executed by Israeli snipers on a daily basis. Kill shots to the head and chest, tiny toddlers and babies dead. Children testifying that after surviving a bomb that quadcopters, operated by the IDF, came and hovered over them before shooting them. This is not one or two rogue IDF members this is on a daily basis. The circa 20,000 dead children is indisputable proof! Of course this tarnishes Israeli’s reputation, mass murder leaves a stain.

No - I am sure the doctors may have a bias- towards saving lives- but it doesn’t mean that they are going to lie or exaggerate about what they saw in Gaza, which is what you implied.

Your thoughts that Israel will see itself as a lost cause in the eyes of the international community and therefore continue on its path regardless may have some merit in it. I don’t know- as don’t live in Israel. But the war could have stopped at any point prior to this, it could have been fought in a different way, it could have chosen not to stop aid, but we just see situation worsening.

You can’t then blame the world responding to this. It’s not like Israel is some helpless vassal state.

It would be great if Israel did elect a more moderate government and some constructive talks to happen for the sake of Israel and Palestinians.
Perhaps there are pro-Israeli supporters encouraging this? Surely it shouldn’t be left to those who support Palestine. Arguably- Israelis maybe more influenced by those whose support for them has never wavered?

@mids2019

The idea of Israel doing it to itself has the undercurrent of victim blaming after October 7th

I'm sorry but this is nonsense. The constant attempt to group together very reasonable opposition to what has become a litany of obvious crimes with forms of extremism, victim blaming and antisemitism, has to be a ploy at this point.

Are you seriously suggesting that there should be no accountability for deliberately shooting at children?

That by 'blaming' Israel for this unforced and despicable course of action, we are in fact victim blaming?

This is being reported time and again by medics on the ground in Gaza. And we're supposed to do - what? Just wait for legal action to take place years in the future and until then it's only fair to assume it's not really happening, despite the consistent and credible reports? Of course this will damage Israel's reputation, it would be absurd and a true double standard if it didn't. I'm sorry but Israel has absolutely done that to itself.

It's very sad, but when you allow extremists to run amok in government, in West Bank settlements and by all appearances in the army too, your reputation as a nation is rightly going to nosedive.

Such nonsense about my points re doctors. Nobody is free from bias, even... dare I say it... you

In a sense your final sentence is my point. People project onto Israel - Palestine their guilt, fears and anxieties. Complicating it massively and helping to keep any type of settlement into the future. If Israelis know that the world sees them as colonists and genocide committers, they conclude that the world hates them and they can't take a risk with their security for any kind of settlement, particularly after October 7. If Palestinians know that they are seen by most as the victims and largely righteous, why make compromises? A person that truly cared about the Palestinians would engage with the moderates on both sides in good faith rather than strengthening the extremes in both socities.

@mids2019
I was referring to the repercussions of Israeli actions following 7/10.

Hazretz feels like a breath of fresh air - although some posters have described it as extremely left wing! We will need to see what government Israel elects next and how the country and its judiciary manage the continued annexation of WB and now also Gaza. Again - the legacy is in its own hands.

If course it makes it difficult for Israeli sports people and artists if their country - even after the fighting has ended- continues to follow a path of differential treatment of people.

I guess society never imagined we would never witness events played out like this on SM. It’s like colonisation and history happening in real time.

You make it sound like it is anti-Semitic to recognise that the Palestinians are humans too, with equal rights to life; education; freedom of thought; and just plain old respect.

Maybe I have been too long on MumsNet but the rules if misogyny seem so analogous to the rules that the Israeli government has in relation to Gaza. In this instance it is: The worst thing about male/ Israeli violence is that it makes men/ Israel look bad. The worst thing about 10 children being blown up (with one survivor) is not that it makes Israel look like a monster in the eyes of the world.
Only Israel has the power to end this war, but even if they make using the word genocide a hate crime; starve Gaza and totally destroy it (as per the stated musings of government minister Smotrich), Israel has only itself to blame for being a pariah state.
We all know it would be genocide if the victims were Jewish, when you say it isn’t genocide because they’re Palestinian it’s just part of the dehumanisation that makes genocide acceptable.

Stripes56

There is some internal opposition to the war in Israel and if your read Haaretz you can see a range of anti war voices. Israel is a democracy and I guess on day to day basis Israelis are discussing the current conflict.

Conflict in the middle East seems to be a given at least during my lifetime but I really am concerned about the perpetual demonising of a state which was borne out the horrors of the holocaust.

I don't want a situation where in a year's time Israeli sports people are routinely heckled, their singers and performers threatened, Judaism as a region being used as market for directed hate etc. However I can see this situation arising and it is a goal of Hamas and it's world wide supporters. As I said wars do end including this one (at a time unknown) so we want to avoid a situation where simply being Israeli leads to stigma. This would be anti semitism at its worst and if we reach that place anti semites have won.

The idea of Israel doing it to itself has the undercurrent of victim blaming after October 7th and unfortunately there are many who still think Israel brought October 7th into itself and it was therefore somehow 'deserved'; we need to distance ourselves utterly from such voices.

I know this comment is meant as a warning, but things have got so bad that I had to actually think: is this person just saying what we know some members of the Israeli government want, and which may be unstated Israeli government policy.

Even a few weeks ago, what we would have recognized as hyperbolic rhetoric is now to be taken at face value.

@Biscuitsformeandyou
It doesn’t help when you question the values and ethics of doctors who go and work in war zones.

@mids2019
There will be a lasting legacy for Israel. The country - and only herself - is responsible for it. An own goal maybe?

Perhaps it is about time Israel let in journalists into Gaza if people continue to be worried the reporting is biased and doing them a disservice? Somehow I think it would only be worse for Israel if this were to happen - and that is why they have taken the calculated decision not to.

I feel for IDF soldiers who started the war- probably with a passion - after 7/10, but who have been left with PTSD and growing number of reservists are refusing to fight, with airmen questioning why the bombardment is continuing. Their voices jar with the more pro-Israeli voices on SM defending the war.

Any racism is dreadful, and there will need to be a lot of work to resolve this once the war is over.

However - when and how will it be over? There is the threat of ethnic cleansing of Gaza - which is supported by over 80% of Israelis in a recent poll.

Innocent babies on both sides of the conflict.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/baby-of-pregnant-terror-victim-dies-after-fighting-for-his-life-for-two-weeks/

Also never forget Israelis mourn as well