Heartbreaking news report from Gaza - Dr receives bodies of her children

BBC news tonight shows drone footage of armed men but not idf soldiers shooting people waiting for food distribution.

They also show people with food condemning hamas, shouting about hamas as they leave with food parcels.

A hospital doctor says patients brought in with gunshot wounds. Many men laying on floor waiting for treatment.

It's clear people are broken and need food.

An example: Al alhil hospital was bombed on Palma Sunday. It was the last good functioning hospital in Gaza. They were given a warning of 20 mins to evacuate. A Christian hospital, Israel claimed it was a Hamas control centre.

Al asqa hospital was claimed to be another command centre but this turned out to be a tent sheltering displaced people which was bombed.

A UN, that well known Hamas supporter, clinic for children was bombed. And a Red Cross clinic.

Claims were made that huge Hamas infrastructure was lying beneath Al.Shifa and Indonesian, and both were found to be much much less than claimed. I think it was Al Shiva in the interview where the Israeli minister had to admit it was not as large as they claimed at all.

The ICC has stated that Israel's claims regarding Hamas involvement in health facilities is grossly exaggerated. I posted the warrant already.

Attacking hospitals is not allowed under international law. Even if a State knows with irrefutable proof that a hospital is being used in harmful attacks against it there are procedures to follow. These procedures are not (only sometimes, not always) giving impossibly short evacuation notices of 20 mins and less and then bombing it. Not shooting people in it and around it. That's why Israel's actions on destroying the health infrastructure in Gaza is a war crime.

Israel knows what to do to follow international law. But it chooses not to.

Yep happy to accept this. Was getting the impression from this thread that we must trust IDF account. We really need independent journalists to go in.

I haven’t heard a pro Israel person say they think the IDF never lie.

But if the IDF give a completely different account to the Hamas account it is worth considering that we don’t actually know who is telling the truth so stories coming out of Gaza shouldn’t necessarily be immediately believed & repeated until & unless we get proof.

@Biscuitsformeandyou
Apologies - I was expecting something a bit more convincing from the initial post about new evidence posted by @Naomival ….

Yes - they are- which some pro-Israeli commentators should also do- accept that what the IDF is saying may not be trusted either.

If you look at the social media of the IDF, Israel, the foreign ministry etc… they are heavily implying that it is the incident today. In the last 3 hours they have shared it with the caption:

“WATCH: Drone footage shows gunmen in Gaza shooting at civilians going to collect aid.
Hamas is doing everything in its power to prevent the successful distribution of food in Gaza”

On a day that over 30 people were murdered and over 200 injured with the victims claiming to have been shot by the IDF to share that video on social media with that caption is to divert blame for the massacre. All the people retweeting it on social media as “evidence” Hamas were the ones to fire on the crowd are taking it that the IDF are offering the video as proof it wasn’t them. Give ‘em the old razzle dazzle - deny, attack, reverse victim and offender but mostly distract the conversation so much that people question the truth.

I agree the video is lame and I think that it would have been better not to release it given the scale of the alleged event today. I also don't think that sarcasm helps.

That isn't true. They are still saying they fired shots at a slightly different location and nobody was hurt. They have released the video to show that Hamas is trying to disrupt the aid process, they are not claiming it was the incident today.

Yes, they've lied repeatedly. Which is why I no longer trust or support them. Yes things happen, fog of war etc but not like this.

And Hamas are evil war criminals in case anyone thinks I somehow support or uncritically believe them.

Of course, it's been pointed out time and again to those who claim we believe Hamas propaganda that no independent journalists are allowed in Gaza.

But apparently that's not deeply sus at all and at the same time it would be wrong to form any negative opinions from the absolute carnage that we do see, because they could be lying, but we can't know because there isn't any independent verification, and there isn't any independent verification because Israel won't allow it, and that's fine.
Ad infinitum.

@Biscuitsformeandyou

it isn’t specially about this incident then…
Not that anything is really clear from the video linked..
I guess we could also remember that IDF have form for shooting at those collecting aid, although not specifically about this incident…

One thing I would like to point out is that the narrative keeps changing from the IDF - this is strange behaviour if they want us to believe they are innocent. This is typical of Israel to keep changing stories and have everyone distracted by their various versions of the truth.

First defense today - they said they fired warning shots at the crowd but no one died.

Second defence - they said they didn’t fire any shots, there was no gun fire outside the centre and have released cctv from outside the distribution centre at that time to show there was no gunfire (slightly ignoring that the site of the massacre was reported to be 1km from the distribution centre.

Third defense today - very dodgy footage of some criminals shooting near a crowd. No verification of date or time or location - no international press outlets have shared or verified the footage. The talk online is that this is video from a black market operation in Khan Younis, run by a notorious family profiteering off stolen aid, selling flour at outrageous prices while Gaza suffers. No aid distribution sites exist in Khan Younis. Again not verified.

One thing I would say is that when someone is shot or has their family members murdered it is incredibly rare for them to lie to protect the people who shot them. For over 200 people who were injured to collectively lie and say the IDF soldiers and quadcopters shot them is highly improbable. For the aid agencies and the doctors on the ground to collectively lie is also highly improbable. Give it a few days and Israel will admit it but say they were all terrorists or some other excuse. I expect we will go from “I didn’t do it” to “I did it but it wasn’t my fault” and some more victim blaming.

This is not the first time the IDF have opened fire at Gazans collecting food aid - it’s happened countless times!

Yes I do know that.

But at least they are admitting they don't really know what happened and you have to take every account with a pinch of salt (including the the IDF & government, naturally).

What G word, genocide? People mention that all the time on MN and don't get their posts deleted. It's fine to have an opinion that it's a genocide though others will disagree and say it's a war.

They fired warning shots so were not trying to hit anyone.

I'm not pro Hamas. I'm anti what is happening in Gaza.
It's very hard to believe what Israel says frankly given they have lied about shooting the paramedics and they had to admit it for example.

Maybe Israel could let independent press in then if verified figures are a concern.

https://twitter.com/idfonline?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1929220806699061307%7Ctwgr%5E070f355f5074c220eef2279bf010b6e27ec4d8cd%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.timesofisrael.com%2Fliveblog_entry%2Fidf-says-drone-video-shows-gunmen-firing-at-gazans-seeking-looted-aid-in-khan-younis%2F

This isn't claimed to be specifically related to the incident

So they admit to shooting but we are supposed to blindly accept that they didn’t hit anyone. Based on what? What exactly is the ‘Hamas are responsible’ people basing this on? The Israeli backed GHF?

Can you provide a link please- can’t see on a google search..

The lobby?

This is unbelievable. You seriously think there will be people upset if it is proved correct that Hamas was firing on people??
You think everyone here wouldn't condemn that if its true?

I cant believe what im reading here.

I have yet to see anyone on mn who has said they are pro hamas. Can you tell us if you have seen this???

And just to make it clear, people who are horrified at the slaughter in Gaza are also horrified at the oct 7 slaughter by hamas.

Suggesting anything else is libellous.

This is simply untrue, if you mention the G word, you're a gonna. The lobby knows.

I’m sure there will be a lot of people upset by that on this thread, with few further posts and with little to no outrage at Hamas for the further horror they have wreaked upon their people.

And they call themselves pro-Palestinians!

There's now new footage showing it was Hamas shooting at innocent civilians collecting aid as they left the as aid centre.