The Children Starve First

Indeed, but one has to use one's words carefully, because some people are working hard to cause deletions if those words sail a little too close to shore 👀

@dairydebris i think it is an unlikely hope. Even If Hamas folded tomorrow, there seem to be other militias in Gaza who would be only happy to harness the anger around them and step into power. When people are oppressed, you will always find those willing to fight.

Ideally, the Palestinians would be offered a peaceful, political path to their own state. Even Witkoff seems to largely agree with the Arab plan not this Israeli plan.

Not that I think that is likely either. I think our best bet at this stage is to hope that Israel gets so much external and internal pressure that it is forced to provide aid. All of the aid necessary to avert a catastrophe.

A deleted post wanted to see starving adults as proof. The babies weren’t enough for them - starved by an uncivilised society apparently.

Unfortunately by the time you see large swathes of a population becoming skeletal, widespread famine has set in and there would be thousands of deaths even with intervention. Survivors and the next generation are also forever impacted.

I still don’t understand why they did not move to phase 2 of ceasefire agreement no clear explanation was ever provided

It was, I believe, that Smotrich or Ben-Givr
( I can’t remember which one) resigned in fury over the ceasefire and hostage release agreement which he considered to mean saying Hamas had won. He wanted to go on and get his cleansing and take-over done once and for all while the going is good.

Then Netanyahu needed him back because without his support he would be out and then convicted for whatever charge it is hanging over him.

In fact, I remember that people in Washington who knew what was happening had already realised from the outset that Netanyahu wouldn’t go through with phase two.

It is a miracle that thanks to the Biden plan last May/ Trump forcing the issue when he came into office the hostages who did, did get released then. Thank God for that at least.

It's just survival of the fittest.

It's an unfortunate side effect of us being animals.

OK. Thanks for answering.

I dont agree that we are responsible for what happens in Gaza. I think Hamas are firstly responsible for what happens in Gaza. Israel are next responsible. Israel is a sovereign nation and like all nations makes it's own choices on defence.

I just can't understand why there's thread after thread of hatred for Israel / Israeli actions but no same thread of hatred for Hamas or calls for Hamas to surrender. It's just all on Israel.

And I know they're terrorists, but they are also the government of Gaza and they could also end it tomorrow. Thats what would be best for Gaza. They're also just men. Like Netanyahu. Just men, subject to the same morals as each other. They could end it too, and let Gaza find new leadership that doesn't see its own people as sacrifices.

Thats what I hope for anyway.

My post clearly hit a nerve. The dehumanisation of Palestinians is astounding. The denial I guess is necessary for some as perhaps the truth is too painful to acknowledge for some Israel supporters. Yes - I did acknowledge the horror of what Hamas has done.

Open your eyes and you will see it. The world can see it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czrv5rl73zdo.amp

I don’t think so. He already pulled out of a ceasefire deal that would have returned the hostages. But what an unrealistic ask as well. What party in a negotiation as well is going to give up their only leverage. Blinken & the US government at the time gave much advice on the best way to dismantle Hamas and it was completely ignored.

But regardless of all of this. The main reason for the pressure on Israel from western quarters is that Israel is an ally. It is literally our responsibility, as an ally of Israel, to call them out on their behaviour. We are collectively responsible for what happens to the people in Gaza.

We know exactly what sort of monster, his name is Netanyahu.

Hamas are terrorists and Netanyahu’s administration are terrorists. The two things can be true at once.

I think the whole world knows who the real terrorist is - it is Israel.

Terrorising the Palestinians. Killing the innocent babies, women, men, elderly.

Blocking Aid. Blocking Journalists.

Terrorising and Killing Journalists and Medical Professionals.

People can make whatever excuse they want - but this is a Terroristic Genocide. The media is complicit and so are the US/UK governments.

Let's call that compound what it will actually be - a concentration camp like those in the second world war. Refugee camp suggests the people will be cared for, they will definitely not be well cared for, I think we all know that 🙁

I don’t think many would disagree that terrorists should be jailed but as you say it’s the lack of due process. Some of these kids (and lots of them are under 18) have done little more than throw stones and are disappeared into the prison system without a fair trial. People can read a bit more about it here https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/07/un-report-palestinian-detainees-held-arbitrarily-and-secretly-subjected

Because they have been dehumanised, they don't matter

The government wants to build a canal going into the Mediterranean Sea. It's supposed to be planned for just north of Gaza, but I don't expect they'll want to have such a thing in such a volatile area, so it's best if Gaza is cleared. Also, they want all the waterfront land as it's valuable for development.

It's a race against time for them as they need to reduce as many numbers of people as they can because their plan to stuff them into a refugee type compound in the south of Gaza will be easier with fewer people. They'll just keep that going ad infinitum or until a country agrees to take them. They'll restrict food, water, medical aid and electricity to reduce life expectancy and work to make them die out eventually. I expect all the Palestinians in the West Bank will be sent there as well in the near future.

I agree it doesn't matter to him. I think the main thing that matters to him is himself.
However, even given that, he's still more likely to stop if Hamas surrender and return the hostages, don't you think?

I honestly don't think it matters to him or his extreme ministers either way. His end goal is to cleanse Gaza he'll find a reason to attempt it with or without Hamas there

OK I'll reword it.

Is Netanyahu more likely to raze and cleanse Gaza if Hamas are in power, or if Hamas surrender and return the hostages?

It’s horrific. There are no words for what these people are going through.

People call for that all the time on here.

For me personally the situation is nuanced.
Those accused of crimes should be tried. Released if found innocent, kept held if guilty.
I wouldn't call for terrorists convicted of killing or planning to kill Israeli civilians to be released. Surely none of us would.

It's obviously not as clear cut as the Israeli hostage situation is it? They should never have been taken and should be released, now, yesterday, months ago, no questions asked.

The 2 groups are not the same.

It’s hard not to conclude that Netenyahu’s need to cling to power (those corruption claims could see him in jail otherwise) make the hostages a useful excuse to raze Gaza. He certainly doesn’t seem to be prioritising their return.

I wouldn't have thought he would get "away" with as much as he has so I have no idea how far Netanyahu thinks he can push it, and if the US continue to support his plan who knows. Netanyahu will find a reason to continue regardless and does not appear to care about anything their allies say.

Held in Israeli prisons*