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Conflict in the Middle East

Why don't Hamas just release all the hostages?

154 replies

springbabydays · 18/05/2025 06:43

First time wading in here but reading this morning's developments, it says Hamas have offered to release 9 hostages in exchange for a 60 day truce and some prisoners.

Why not release all hostages to end the war?

What's in it for them to prolong this? They are clearly not going to 'beat' Israel.

OP posts:
Martymcfly24 · 18/05/2025 19:07

BreezyBertha · 18/05/2025 19:06

Are ‘legal experts’ applying international law when it comes to a terrorist state next door?

Is there even any law on that?

I wonder why there is a terrorist state next door.....

Oh yes because they are occupied..

Chickens and egg situation there.

Martymcfly24 · 18/05/2025 19:06

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 19:04

Palestine? Do you mean Gaza and what used to be Jordan on the west bank? Or are you referring to what is recognised as Israel?

I was referring to the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.

BreezyBertha · 18/05/2025 19:06

Stripes56 · 18/05/2025 18:59

Can you name a country that spoils another’s water supply, bombs it’s airport and uses its airspace for surveillance, prevents it from having a seaport, extensively surveys it’s population without agreement? Can you name another country that actively controls how much food and other supplies goes into a country?

Legal experts have said occupy does not require military presence and you can understand why when you see how you can control population regardless of troops on the ground.

Are ‘legal experts’ applying international law when it comes to a terrorist state next door?

Is there even any law on that?

User37482 · 18/05/2025 19:05

Think the WSJ published an article today citing Hamas communications about the aim of all of this being to stop a Saudi Israel normalisation agreement. So many dead, both Gazans and Israelis for this.

OP I think it’s because it’s the last bit if leverage they have. They are asking for their families to be able to leave Gaza as part of a deal. No shits given for the other Gazans. They are also facing anti-hamas protests and have been executing Gazan protesters, shooting people in the legs and harassing Gazan journalists. I think a video of a senior Hamas member saying it’s all good because houses can be rebuilt and more “martyrs” (read civilians) can be born is going around arabic speaking twitter. Again no shits given. Complete and total self interest.

The reality is the UAE is clearly saying Hamas has to go as part of a peace process (their forign minister was very clear on this). Their opportunities are narrowing and I expect the other arab nations involved in this will be pushing for a third country to take hamas members. This is a desperate last bid. The reality is Israel cannot risk leaving Hamas in Gaza 7/10 saw around 1300 people murdered, can you imagine if 1300 Brits were murdered in a terrorist attack and there were hundreds kidnapped. Could Britain realistically leave that terror group alone? Or would they be expected to dig out every last one of them?

I imagine at the end of this the UAE and Saudi will take over governance of Gaza not Israel (if theres anything left to govern tbh).

I hope this is over soon, I think it will be.

Stripes56 · 18/05/2025 19:04

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:51

7/10 showed the world what happens when Israeli border control breaks down, I don't think I'd advocate for them to have less border control.

Fair enough - but that does not mean that Israel does not have obligations to the Palestinians given their occupation. Hence the current outrage at the fact Israel has not allowed aid into Gaza since March 2nd.

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 19:04

Martymcfly24 · 18/05/2025 19:00

Palestine is an Occupied Territory even their biggest cheerleaders in the US recognize that.

Palestine? Do you mean Gaza and what used to be Jordan on the west bank? Or are you referring to what is recognised as Israel?

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 19:01

MyNameIsX · 18/05/2025 18:33

Ukraine is currently occupying some Russian territory.

Your point?

Odd post.
USSR used to covet lots of places, Ukraine is not the only former soviet bloc country happier to be independent. Not sure where you consider it's borders to be, but suspect your opinion is not relevant to them.

Martymcfly24 · 18/05/2025 19:00

Palestine is an Occupied Territory even their biggest cheerleaders in the US recognize that.

Stripes56 · 18/05/2025 18:59

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:25

So a country controlling it's borders is occupying the territory on the other side of that border?

Can you name a country that spoils another’s water supply, bombs it’s airport and uses its airspace for surveillance, prevents it from having a seaport, extensively surveys it’s population without agreement? Can you name another country that actively controls how much food and other supplies goes into a country?

Legal experts have said occupy does not require military presence and you can understand why when you see how you can control population regardless of troops on the ground.

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:51

7/10 showed the world what happens when Israeli border control breaks down, I don't think I'd advocate for them to have less border control.

BreezyBertha · 18/05/2025 18:49

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 18:39

You too, please take the time to read a few resources on what a military occupation is and isn’t.

Thanks but I’ll pass. There are different interpretations of International Law depending on what your bias is.

Why on earth would you think I was at University. I guess I’ll take that as a compliment.

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 18:39

BreezyBertha · 18/05/2025 18:16

Because the Gazans weren’t free to attack Israel by land, sea and air and Israel has borders = occupation.

You too, please take the time to read a few resources on what a military occupation is and isn’t.

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 18:38

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:25

So a country controlling it's borders is occupying the territory on the other side of that border?

No. Seriously, please take the time to read a few resources on what a military occupation is and isn’t.

MyNameIsX · 18/05/2025 18:33

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:25

So a country controlling it's borders is occupying the territory on the other side of that border?

Ukraine is currently occupying some Russian territory.

Your point?

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:25

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 18:17

Because a military occupation doesn’t require physical presence to be an occupation. A military occupation is control exerted by a ruling sovereign power’s military over a territory that is not part of its own sovereign territory/state. The fact that Israel controls everything and everyone that goes in or out of Gaza is only possible because Israel is the occupying power.

So a country controlling it's borders is occupying the territory on the other side of that border?

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 18:17

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:13

Israel withdrew from Gaza as per pp. How were they occupying when they weren't there?

Because a military occupation doesn’t require physical presence to be an occupation. A military occupation is control exerted by a ruling sovereign power’s military over a territory that is not part of its own sovereign territory/state. The fact that Israel controls everything and everyone that goes in or out of Gaza is only possible because Israel is the occupying power.

BreezyBertha · 18/05/2025 18:16

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:13

Israel withdrew from Gaza as per pp. How were they occupying when they weren't there?

Because the Gazans weren’t free to attack Israel by land, sea and air and Israel has borders = occupation.

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 18:13

Israel withdrew from Gaza as per pp. How were they occupying when they weren't there?

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 18:12

BreezyBertha · 18/05/2025 18:06

Are Egypt occupying Gaza too?

They maintain border defences as well, much more fortified than the Israel side, do they not?

No Egypt does not occupy Gaza. Egypt did from 1948 to 1967 and the six day war after which Israel has occupied Gaza and presently still occupies Gaza.

I would suggest you read this chapter
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/law-of-war/military-occupation/B4B549E58329C585683CE130CBA141F7

Your Uni should have access to it so you may understand what an occupation is and that “working on border defences” can happen as part of an occupation or entirely independent from an occupation. You will also learn the difference between domestic borders, territorial borders and international borders.

BreezyBertha · 18/05/2025 18:06

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 17:49

Israel does occupy Gaza and has done so since the six day war in 1967,
It isn’t a question of differing viewpoints, it is a fact that Gaza is under military occupation by Israel. It is also fact that this occupation has been ruled to be an illegal occupation.

Are Egypt occupying Gaza too?

They maintain border defences as well, much more fortified than the Israel side, do they not?

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 17:49

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 17:46

But they are not occupying Gaza, they are maintaining border defences ( I wonder why?), as you say, this has been discussed from both viewpoints here.

Israel does occupy Gaza and has done so since the six day war in 1967,
It isn’t a question of differing viewpoints, it is a fact that Gaza is under military occupation by Israel. It is also fact that this occupation has been ruled to be an illegal occupation.

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 17:46

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 17:31

Yes. As has been explained a dozen times over the past 19 months, the occupation of Gaza is a military occupation.

This occupation of all Palestinian Territories, not just Gaza, has lasted 57yrs and was ruled to be illegal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo

Edited

But they are not occupying Gaza, they are maintaining border defences ( I wonder why?), as you say, this has been discussed from both viewpoints here.

Aikko · 18/05/2025 17:40

allamberedover · 18/05/2025 11:33

@Aikko you describe the atrocities against Jewish people .

Does that mean because unconscionable,terrible things happened that it is accepted that further terrible ,unconscionable things are perpetrated with the world looking on and providing various kinds of support to those continuing these actions .

The ethnic cleansing of Jewish people from the Arab world has far too often been overlooked. This is largely an untold story, and it is an unresolved injustice.

Huge amounts of airtime, debate and resources are focused on the Palestinians who were displaced by the 1948 conflict, and it is right to acknowledge their suffering and the importance of safeguarding their interests in a future peace settlement. But the plight of the 850,000 Jewish refugees and the scale of their suffering have never had the recognition they deserve. You may be shocked to learn that some countries’ embassies in Cairo are apparently located in homes stolen from Jewish Egyptian refugees. Concentrating only on the Palestinian refugees gives the international community a distorted view of the middle east dispute. A fair settlement needs to take into account the injustice suffered by Jewish refugees as well as the plight of displaced Palestinians.

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 17:31

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 17:29

So all Jewish people left Gaza...but are still occupying it?

Yes. As has been explained a dozen times over the past 19 months, the occupation of Gaza is a military occupation.

This occupation of all Palestinian Territories, not just Gaza, has lasted 57yrs and was ruled to be illegal.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo

quantumbutterfly · 18/05/2025 17:29

LoremIpsumCici · 18/05/2025 17:23

You are ignoring the fact that Gaza is occupied territory and it was Israel that banned any Jewish person from living there. Israel went in and dismantled the illegal Jewish settlements, and Israel forcibly displaced Jewish residents from Gaza into Israel.

Israel is an occupying power that has systematically segregated Arab from Jewish across the region. That is why the ICJ has ruled that Israel is an apartheid state.

The lack of Jewish people in Gaza was directly done by Israel, not Gazans,

So all Jewish people left Gaza...but are still occupying it?