Eurovision - was the jury vote impacted by politics?

Yes really. Reporters without Borders and the IFJ also disagree. Of course Israel will smear and tarnish them to discredit them, that’s what it has done all along to any critics.

https://www.ifj.org/war-in-gaza
https://rsf.org/en/gaza-ceasefire-rsf-calls-open-borders-journalists-and-end-impunity-israel-s-war-crimes

I’m not sure if anyone is swallowing the “they’re all Hamas” type arguments at this point. If you care about Isreal, you’d be asking why this government are risking so much internationally now, and internally.

Oh really? This is an Instagram post which shows the famous Mr FAFO (he who has repeatedly risen from the dead and has been photographed/videoed in various poses such as a medic, journalist, hospital patient and even a dead body) and other Palestinians changing ‘costume’ from press vests to other garb.

Mr FAFO is well recognised by many who have followed his acting career from being a celebratory Gazan citizen thanking Allah for Oct 7th onwards.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DFBVp5bvuzW/?igsh=ZXVkYm9tdnBndW84

A lot in that Wikipedia list are from Al Aqsa TV which is Hamas run, a lot not affiliated or freelance. No evidence of any journalistic credentials either and it is not a ‘verified’ list. Anyone can add to a Wiki page.

I don’t doubt some members of the press innocently going about their jobs were killed in a war. Sadly it is a risky occupation.

Gosh do you remember when the ceasefire was announced back it January this year, social media was set alight with Palestinian activists claiming that the Palestinians had won the war! Israel was defeated! Long live Hamas! Hamas are true warriors. There was one journalist (BayanPalestine) that even posted “Next on the list: the day Israel ceases to exist.” https://x.com/BayanPalestine/status/1879586510745539009

Then there were scenes of Palestinians in Gaza shouting that they are the soldiers of Deif (the mastermind of 10/7) while praising Hamas’ military brigades. And then videos of regular Palestinians boasting that 10/7 will happen over and over.

But so strange, no talk of rebuilding, no talk of coexistence, no talk of maybe a new non-Hamas government. And zero talk of no more war.

Weirdly in this universe, the dubious claims of “genocide” exist alongside boasts of “victory”. To hear the victim of any true genocide emerge in the aftermath and shout "we won" and yearn for more war is truly unprecedented and quite telling.

Seeing the Jews suffer is worth any amount of sacrifice, it would appear. It's why some Palestinians will boast of victory while at the same time speaking of genocide (as if none of us will notice the blatant contradiction).

The Palestinian narrative from the beginning has consisted of two polar opposite contentions - we are the ultimate victims and we are also winning!! Unlucky for them though, some of us can actually see it for what it is.

And the saddest part? The fact that this war has claimed tens of thousands of Palestinian lives (many innocent, a fair few not innocent at all) it’s sad to see that calls for destroying Israel really rise to the surface, and that calls for rebuilding and peace and an end to permanent bloodshed remain few and far in between, and are arguably not visible at all.

What a pointless tragedy that a state of “resistance” constantly trying to eradicate Israel is preferable, in their view, to a state that is living in peace next to a sovereign Jewish state.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Yes you are totally right.

Some of the batshit comments on here are still tame compared to the total psycho statements by some members of the Israeli government.

She not “making stuff up” off her own bat. This is all stuff that the Israeli government say.

It sounds completely bonkers now but people still believe it I guess.

I’m sure there is a really good reason that so many healthcare workers and aid workers have been killed too.

More

More

Everyone can’t just put a Press vest on.
Im sorry but this is just nonsense, please stop making stuff up.

Here
All 210 verified murders in Gaza of members of the press by the IDF and Israeli Govn bombing

Oh come on, anyone can put a PRESS vest on. There seem be a large stock of brand new vests in Gaza if you look at some of the SM videos they post. It seems there are a high number of these ‘journalists’ who are affiliated with Hamas too. You can quite easily google this.

In Gaza, I believe Israel are at war with assorted terror organisations and their partners (all proxies of Iran), who actively want a high number of civilian deaths and for the war to continue as long as possible to demonise Israel on the world stage. Their supporters have enabled them very successfully. Despite this Israel has the lowest civilian to combatant death ratio in an urban war zone which is unprecedented.

In the West Bank, I believe Israel’s very valid security concerns due to geographical position, mean they have to have Israeli settlements and oversight to prevent the type of attack that occurred on Oct 7th. These concerns were valid before Oct 7th too. Hamas is in the West Bank despite posters on here saying they aren’t.

All could have been avoided, if the Palestinians had got on with building their own State since 1948, like Israel did, rather than dedicate most of their energies into trying to destroy Israel and kill Jews.

So you agree with what Israel is doing in Gaza and West Bank right now?

How do you describe what they are doing?

How many Palestinian journalists have been killed and deliberately targeted in Gaza? Over 160. So even if you disagree that Western media has deliberately not reported the situation in Gaza, you can’t deny that the IDF have deliberately targeted journalists. And I’m talking about people wearing press vests, not just anyone with a phone.

There will be unverified reports on both sides, undoubtedly, but I am interested in what people who support Israel define what is happening in Gaza right now. Because there is only one way to see those scenes.

Going back to Eurovision there is no way they should have been allowed to compete. Russia is banned and any breaking of international law should apply to all who break it, not just those who the West favours for its own ends. The world is made a less safe place by disregarding such laws; the massive hypocrisy being that Eurovision was set up in the aftermath of WW2, to promote peace and unity. The situation between Israel and Gaza makes a mockery of that.

No, I haven’t been. I know many that have. I’m not claiming to be an expert and I accept that you and others will feel differently, but we are all entitled to look at the evidence and have a view.

Back to the OG topic ...

I have posted about this before and I will stand by what I said then: this has been a travesty - and it was entirely predictable that it would turn into one!

Israel before the ESC: "This is not political. We're only smol bean - why would you be mean to a young woman who survived the worst?"

Israel after ESC: "SEE??? THE SILENT MAJORITY LOVES US!!!"

This is after ...

• them taking out massive ads and mobilisation campaigns to "vote 20 times"
• their representative closing her performance with the nationalist slogan "am yisrael chai" (I thought this was not political?)

Meanwhile, nobody reports on what happened outside: Swiss police clubbing and teargassing, rubber bulleting and kettling until 4am local protesters. These included families with children, minors, and the elderly!

It was always obvious this was going to happen - since I'm currently based around Basel for work, this was always obvious.

Don't come at me with "poor smol bean Israel". They should have been excluded (and at this point the PM of Spain agrees!).

It actually is that simple. Hamas could lay down their arms and surrender right now and return the hostages.

Israel were pretty helpless when they started out in 1948 against SIX Arab armies but they still prevailed. You’d think that would kind of be a deterrent unless you don’t think Oct 7th was an act of war and was just the Palestinians having some fun on an away day?

If you had your eyes open, you’d see that there are still over 5 million Palestinians, 2 million in Gaza, and they are far from being annihilated over a year and half into this war despite Israel having the capacity to within days, so your ridiculous assertion doesn’t make much sense now does it?

Nobody wants to starve Palestinian babies, even Israel, except the leaders their elders voted in it seems. I don’t think there’s much hope of you changing their minds or humanising their people that they deliberately use as cannon fodder and have done for decades.

Media blackout? It’s all over social media constantly and the MSM is constantly publishing unverified reports to demonise Israel.

Israel is an apartheid State? I think a lot of Israeli Arabs would disagree with you. Have you been there?

There has been a deluge of Palestinian stories out of the territories. One won an Oscar just recently! There is a usual amount of Palestinian ‘journalists’ seemingly with no prior credentials telling stories every day out of Gaza.

Palestinians are NOT Israeli citizens btw. How do you think Palestinians treat Israelis - Oct 7th anyone?

We must be living in an alternate reality.

It’s not that simple though is it? Hamas have no doubt not helped the situation when it comes to aid, but in no way is Israel a compliant, helpless state simply defending itself. Perhaps they started out that way, perhaps that what they wanted the world to believe then, but in no way has this ever been a fight between Israel versus ‘the terrorists’. It’s so much more complicated than that and pre dates the last 18 months it by decades.

The terrible events of October 7th have been used as a carte Blanche for all out annihilation by IDF of all Palestinians, civilians included and anyone with their eyes open knows this.

But if people want to starve babies simply because they’re Palestinian how I can I change their minds or humanise them in their eyes?

Yes I am actually, I know and donate to help crises around the world in Sudan, in Yemen, Congo, Haiti, the list goes on.

The reason why this particular situation causes so much outrage is because Israel is an apartheid state, and the singer on Eurovision has a platform to tell her story, but Palestinian children do not. They are treated as second class citizens and that is fundamentally unjust. People speak out against it as they did against apartheid South Africa, because there is a denial of human rights. No one is condoning hamas, but I also do not support the forced upheaval, mass bombing and starvation of a civilian population. There is also been a deliberate media blackout of the reality on the ground in Palestine for much of the last 18 months. So the question becomes why do elites censor this? Sadly with the rest of the conflicts around the world, the west doesn’t have skin in the game and simply doesn’t care for the large part. This ‘what about the rest of the world’ is a lazy deflection from people who don’t want to tackle the real issues.

Actually i live in Belgium and there were YouTube advertisements in French and Dutch to vote for Israel. Perhaps you didn’t get them in the UK.

Rude again. You're suggesting I'm far right in my politics. Quite wrong and dismissive. Not a lot of intellectual rigour.

Ukraine at war - they won. Israel gets politically motivated support - top 3 for 3 years. It’s a popularity contest, not a music contest, with voters. The country jurys are better judges. It’s been this way for decades now and it’s really boring with many forgettable songs winning and we have no idea who the winners are ever again.

Our popular music is different. We have a global industry and don’t need Eurovision. We got second with a wailing type song 2 years ago - obviously should have won but a war vote got in the way. That’s the key to winning this - wailing, strobe lighting and not too many words. I was bored beyond belief on Saturday and never again. Better things to do!

i’m not going to explain to how white supremacy is just one specific group within far right ideology.

All of this stuff is just factual. You could read the news and learn about far right politics and beliefs if you are interested. I’m certain you’ll find many ideas that you agree with. It has nothing to do with the thread topic now.

Rude and inaccurate.
You're saying far right when you mean white supremacist I suspect.

Well it’s a fact that they do. No they don’t because although islamic fundamentalists and far right ideologies share some thinking that is along the same lines, they are two separate ideologies. Again we are on 101 class stuff.

Anyway this has veered away from the original topic. Why don’t you go back to living in your alternative facts fantasy land where Israel getting votes in Eurovision = public support for Israel and I can stay in the rather depressing real world.

That's quite a statement.

Your last question assumes I agree with you.

Would you also say that far right groups are just as likely to support caliphates, they just comprise a different demographic.