NHS staff told to stop wearing uniforms at pro-Palestinian demonstrations

How does that work when England and German Fans come to watch a match at Wembley?

I mean, I don't think political symbols have a place in the workplace, but I kinda draw the line at banning all flags but the UK one. I mean what happens to England, NI, Scotland and Wales flags?!

I can see your position being particularly problematic in NI.

What happens to me if I fail to surrender my EU and Dutch flags that I already have? Will I go to prison?

The only flag allowed in UK should be UK flag. Especially schools, civil service, police, NHS, etc.
Lots of teachers in my son's school (state school, not private) have/had Palestinian flag sticker. I don't think they would let my son have sticker/ badge with Israel flag. I would be told to remove it straight away.

This.

It's a really sensible policy which doesn't stop anyone from protesting but protects the patient / HCP balance and stops anyone from feeling like they may be treated poorly for coming from the wrong background.

Healthcare is supposed to be without prejudice and based on need - not conditional on you having the 'correct' political views.

Personal political views should never be brought into the workplace. I don’t want to know what the people treating me believe in, I don’t want them to know what I believe in. I will treat them with respect and appreciation and I expect them to care for me as a human being.

An NHS uniform devoid of any badges and an NHS lanyard is what I expect to see. And inside the hospital only.

People in this thread have all failed to address the point that the government has to hold a strong line on this. The options will otherwise be:

1. Allow people to wear NHS uniform to every demonstration
2. Have the government decide which demonstrations are acceptable

Neither is going to go well. Streeting has decided correctly. It's not simply about how one feels about Gaza.

Blimey that actually sounds like common sense. Are you absolutely sure it was said by a politician?

Ok?

I said that earlier.

Then they can and should protest in other ways, rather than imposing political views in a workplace.

But not everyone obviously is exploiting the conflict, many are just really concerned about the babies that will starve to death over the next couple of days.

There is as stated very good reason for NHS staff to be apolitical on duty. The politics is happening inside the house of commons where it should in a democracy.

The big fear as always is that we have limited influence over this conflict and we lose sight of this but allow anti semitism to fester as a result. There will be those who would exploit the current conflict to legitimise Jew hatred. This is wrong.

So what did you mean by ‘Watching the ramping up
of Israel’s hostilities brings back echoes of the Nazi persecution’?

Obviously you know Jewish people were persecuted by the Nazis?

It seemed quite clear to me but please point out what I have misunderstood?

What makes you think I don’t have sympathy for the people in Gaza?

Although I admit I don’t have sympathy for the Hamas/PIJ operatives/supporters included in that 52,000 figure you quoted, but innocent people and children who were forced into a war by their leaders, who took absolutely no measures to protect them unlike every other government in the world, I do.

I also have sympathy for the families of, and the thousands of victims of Oct 7th, and the hostages, and the IDF soldiers (and all their families) who have lost their lives, some including their heads that were hacked off by Gazans, all those with life changing injuries and the thousands having to be away from their families to fight a very dirty war in unprecedented conditions while being demonised by the international community and supporters of the terrorist ideology that they are having to fight against.

asymmetric conflict whose desire is the abolition of Israel with the expulsion of worse of Jews

Do you not see that there is an extremist faction controlling Israeli actions through Netanyahu who is using these extremists to keep himself in power and that they desire the abolition of Palestine with the expulsion or worse of Palestinians? They do not only desire it - they are doing it right now.

Do you not know that Ben Givr or Smotrich actually said Hamas was useful to them?

I absolutely rebuff any accusations of holocaust inversion. Shame on you, trying to use that against me.
Where is your sympathy for the 52000 people dead in gaza, the starving children, the babies who will die within 48 hours unless proper food is allowed in, the communities destroyed, lives ruined?
I don't know why hamas hasn't surrendered, how the hell would i know??
All i know is people are on the brink of being destroyed and we are sat watching it and it is wrong!!!

More holocaust inversion. Shame on you.

Did the Jewish people start a war with the Nazis by massacring, raping, injuring and kidnapping thousands of Germans, including babies and children? What did they have to lay down their arms and surrender for? They didn’t have any! Would it have made any difference to the Nazis plan to commit genocide against them if they had? Most Jewish people were exterminated without a fight anyway.

Why hasn’t Hamas surrendered? Where is your handwringing about that?

This is a really fair response.

It's not saying you can't participate in protests. It's saying you shouldn't go in uniform because that damages patient/HCP trust and relationships by potentially intimidating another group.

I hope that unions take note...

Lol so now you believe what Hamas says. No context on what or why those civilians were doing what they were? Then it says citizens and factions. Who made them? Have you ever thought beyond your privilege to see what it must be like to live under occupation and when you resist you are shot down? Do you know what day to day life is like under occupation before you jump to conclusions?

And just like I won't assume absolutely every Israeli is deranged and calling for ethnic cleansing like their leaders in the knesset, even though many interviews woth ordinary israelis show their views, I will not judge a whole population by the actions of a few.

And have you thought why people voted for Hamas? Did they have a choice? There is no mention of killing Jews in their mandate, it's against occupation, so people were not voting for a party to kill jews. Half the population is children. These people have grown up in occupation. Israel itself has supported Hamas when it suited it.

I recommend you read The Other Side of Israel by Susan Nathan. She is a British Jewish lady who migrated to Israel and then decided to see for herself what it was like to live with Palestinians. She refused to other them. It's a fascinating and eye opening account.

Yes the Oct 7th attacks were horrific. What drives people to do that? A lot of the rape and beheaded babies claims were proved false. Absolutely no innocent Israeli should be killed, and my beleif is 1 person kiled is 1 person too many.

I don't see you have any empathy for tens of thousands of children and innocent Palestinians killed, mutilated, trapped under rubble.

As for zionist / nazi collab, John Newsinger in his book 'The Blood Never Dried' - a peoples history of the British empire explains this, and how they collaborated with the SS finding a shared interest in the eviction of Jews from Germany. We honestly have a terrible history. But don't seem to learn from it.

Are you not also horrified that Hamas has STILL not surrendered, 58 hostages are STILL being held in Gaza, and NO neighbouring countries have offered a passage to safety for Gazan refugees?

That is really sick IMO.

Hamas said so themselves………..,

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/11/3/what-do-we-know-about-the-israeli-captives-held-by-hamas

What is most shocking to me is the blind support and belief in Palestinian civilians who knowingly elected a terrorist organisation with a horrifically racist and evil mandate to kill Jews and destroy their neighbours and the world’s only Jewish State, and who also participated in and celebrated one of the world’s worst terrorist attacks which included the rape, kidnapping and cold blooded murder, with their bare hands, of innocent Israeli and foreign citizens, including babies, children and the elderly.

How exactly did the Jewish people collaborate with the Nazis in creating Israel?

Are those the same Nazis who had been ethnically cleansing and committing genocide against the Jews just beforehand?

https://fathomjournal.org/hitler-and-the-nazis-anti-zionism-2/

Im really sick on here with posters claiming everyone is anti jews, its really really beyond frustrating. Its almost like some posters actually want people to be antisemitic, rather than accept people can just be horrified at what Israel are doing.

Where is your evidence for Gazan civilians taking hostages?

I wouldn't take anything out of Israel seriously, given its trying to ethnically cleanse Palestine, was built on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and collaborated with the nazis in creating it.

Even if that NHS surgeon didn't personally eyewitness, many did.

What's most shocking here is that there is blind support (by parents supposedly given that this is Mumsnet) of a government that behaves worse than a proscribed terrorist organisation.

The reason I highlight what I do is because when you dehumanise people it becomes much easier to eliminate them.

It’s shocking but not surprising that @UsernamesAreTaken would make that assertion doesn’t it, despite numerous reports to the contrary including by the UN, UK Parliament and the OHCHR. Just shows how some posters check their facts!

The NHS doctor did not personally witness anything he alleges in terms of snipers targeting children. He is repeating what he was told with no actual evidence. It is totally in Hamas/the Palestinians interests to claim the IDF aka Jews, are evil monsters. It’s the old blood libel.

Gazan civilians took hostages on 7/10 and sold them on to armed groups, hostages were held in civilian homes and UNWRA buildings, Gazan civilians looted kibbutzim and cars at the nova site, when they found people hiding they called the armed men over or lynched them themselves.
My comments are based on witness and ex- hostage testimony.

I don't write this to try and change your position, that's your privilege, I write this to give a more complete picture of a horrendous situation.

"At least some of the acts and omissions alleged by South Africa to have been committed by Israel in Gaza appear to be capable of falling within the provisions of the (Genocide) Convention," the judges said.

You can argue over wording but the fact is that the situation is dire and Israel has not taken the steps to protect civilians that it was supposed to.

Amnesty International concluded genocide and talks about the indiscriminate killing:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-international-concludes-israel-is-committing-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/

And this from an NHS doctor who talks about sniper shots to the head of children:
https://www.thenational.scot/news/24720292.surgeon-breaks-describing-idf-drones-shooting-children-gaza/

Palestinian civilians did not take hostages. And no I don't belive that Israel having no regard for hostages negates Palestinians taking hostages. But Palestinian civilians didn't take any hostages.