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Conflict in the Middle East
Original poster

Israeli movements against Settlements?

142 replies

hareclive · 01/05/2025 08:24

yesterday I had a thread deleted from the Chat section because of inflammatory negative generalisations that I made about Israelis in my opening post. the post was to discuss Louis Theroux s documentary on The Settlers.

there were claims on the thread that the Settlers of nationalist extremists and that not all Israelis support Settlements. from my POV all the Israeli spokespeople and voices I have seen and heard, DO support Settlements. it is my understanding that the vast majority of Israelis support Settlements? I think it isn't accurate to say that it isn't representative of Israelis? DW was an elected mayor and is nominated for a Nobel prize by Israeli university professors so she isn't considered a nutter by mainstream Israelis as far as I can see

other comments on the thread suggested that both sides are as bad as each other. when I tried to explore this I was given a link to an attack on an Israeli family from 2011. but what I can't find is any evidence that it is commonplace for Palestinians to want to remove all Israelis from the land. there is no national movement to do this. the spokespeople for Palestinians just talk about living in peace and having the occupation removed

tldr: I'm genuinely interested in hearing about Israeli opposition to the Settlements and occupation. and understanding what the mainstream Israeli POV is on this? because from the outside it does look like nationalistic religious extremism, at this point

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Odras · 02/05/2025 09:50

I found this research report about it.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/20/settlements-and-violence-in-the-west-bank-and-east-jerusalem/

My impression is that a significant amount of Israeli’s believe god gave them Israel - this biblical rights idea. It seems to me also that the idea that peace will be achieved through military action is also commonly held.

So you, me and many people watching the documentary here are viewing DW’s views through a different lens. She seems nuts to us but I’m guessing that DW’s views might be controversial within Israel but perhaps not seen as completely nuts.

3. Settlements and violence in the West Bank and East Jerusalem

40% of Israelis say Jewish settlements in the West Bank help Israeli national security, while 35% say they hurt.

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/20/settlements-and-violence-in-the-west-bank-and-east-jerusalem/

2024onwardsandup · 01/05/2025 14:24

hareclive · 01/05/2025 08:24

yesterday I had a thread deleted from the Chat section because of inflammatory negative generalisations that I made about Israelis in my opening post. the post was to discuss Louis Theroux s documentary on The Settlers.

there were claims on the thread that the Settlers of nationalist extremists and that not all Israelis support Settlements. from my POV all the Israeli spokespeople and voices I have seen and heard, DO support Settlements. it is my understanding that the vast majority of Israelis support Settlements? I think it isn't accurate to say that it isn't representative of Israelis? DW was an elected mayor and is nominated for a Nobel prize by Israeli university professors so she isn't considered a nutter by mainstream Israelis as far as I can see

other comments on the thread suggested that both sides are as bad as each other. when I tried to explore this I was given a link to an attack on an Israeli family from 2011. but what I can't find is any evidence that it is commonplace for Palestinians to want to remove all Israelis from the land. there is no national movement to do this. the spokespeople for Palestinians just talk about living in peace and having the occupation removed

tldr: I'm genuinely interested in hearing about Israeli opposition to the Settlements and occupation. and understanding what the mainstream Israeli POV is on this? because from the outside it does look like nationalistic religious extremism, at this point

What do you think From The River To The Sea Means?

JustGoClickLikeALightSwitch · 01/05/2025 14:18

hareclive · 01/05/2025 14:02

thank you for posting. I am really relieved to hear that most Israelis don't support Settlements. are there any political candidates that are against settlement/would implement international law if they had the power?

Show quote history

Yes. Here’s a neutral, I think, list of all the political parties in Israel, which span the political spectrum. A huge problem (imo) is that Israel operates proportional representation , with the obvious impact on political manoeuvring.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Israel

Original poster
hareclive · 01/05/2025 14:02

JustGoClickLikeALightSwitch · 01/05/2025 11:15

it is my understanding that the vast majority of Israelis support Settlements? I think it isn't accurate to say that it isn't representative of Israelis? DW was an elected mayor and is nominated for a Nobel prize by Israeli university professors so she isn't considered a nutter by mainstream Israelis as far as I can see

Jew here with Israeli family. Assuming you are posting in good faith - no, the majority don't support settlements. Settlements = higher levels of conflict with Gazans and Palestinians on the west bank = more instability, knife or bomb attacks and rockets lobbed over major cities. And when it's your children/neighbours/friends in the army and at risk, that's not what you want. (A lot of the settlers are religious and therefore exempt from national service, although that is changing/threatened to change, so having your kid put at risk to defend a religious nut who decided to perch on a random hillside and call it Judea... it's not popular, funnily enough.)

I'm simplyfying, but as broadly as I can put it.

Beyond that, "vast majority of Israelis" is hard to typify. In the big cities, where people are modern and progressive, I'd say it's a combination of wanting peace (either for its own sake or for the sake of their safety or both), fear of Israel's stance internationally, in some cases racism, their own experiences in the IDF, and then a degree of movement based on political leanings. I've no idea how more religious Jews would frame it.

thank you for posting. I am really relieved to hear that most Israelis don't support Settlements. are there any political candidates that are against settlement/would implement international law if they had the power?

OP posts:
Mylegishangingoff · 01/05/2025 11:15

Twiglets1 · 01/05/2025 10:57

It’s more reasonable to assume that people vote for a party on a range of issues that mainly affect them.

Also, Netanyahu is not expected to win the next election.

Show quote history

I think this would show a huge amount of apathy towards Palestinian suffering which I think is propably accurate. He might be pro throwing people out of their homes, installing apartheid streets and harassing Palestinians everyday of their lives but hmm, free school meals for my kids, he has my vote!

It's not like we are talking about a politician who is not so hot on environmental issues but everything else is aligns with your values, the bad here is really, really bad. Im not sure if the majority of Israelis are actually actively pro settlements but certainly I don't think the majority care about it enough to do anything, it's not like this is a new issue that's suddey come to light. If the majority really cared about the abuse of Palestinians then it wouldn't happen on such a mass scale, over such a prolonged period of time and it certainly wouldnt have been escalating so rapidly as was seen from 2022 on.

JustGoClickLikeALightSwitch · 01/05/2025 11:15

it is my understanding that the vast majority of Israelis support Settlements? I think it isn't accurate to say that it isn't representative of Israelis? DW was an elected mayor and is nominated for a Nobel prize by Israeli university professors so she isn't considered a nutter by mainstream Israelis as far as I can see

Jew here with Israeli family. Assuming you are posting in good faith - no, the majority don't support settlements. Settlements = higher levels of conflict with Gazans and Palestinians on the west bank = more instability, knife or bomb attacks and rockets lobbed over major cities. And when it's your children/neighbours/friends in the army and at risk, that's not what you want. (A lot of the settlers are religious and therefore exempt from national service, although that is changing/threatened to change, so having your kid put at risk to defend a religious nut who decided to perch on a random hillside and call it Judea... it's not popular, funnily enough.)

I'm simplyfying, but as broadly as I can put it.

Beyond that, "vast majority of Israelis" is hard to typify. In the big cities, where people are modern and progressive, I'd say it's a combination of wanting peace (either for its own sake or for the sake of their safety or both), fear of Israel's stance internationally, in some cases racism, their own experiences in the IDF, and then a degree of movement based on political leanings. I've no idea how more religious Jews would frame it.

Twiglets1 · 01/05/2025 10:57

Baital · 01/05/2025 10:14

As the elected government seems pro-settler it is reasonable to assume the population who voted for them are pro-settler, surely?

It’s more reasonable to assume that people vote for a party on a range of issues that mainly affect them.

Also, Netanyahu is not expected to win the next election.

Twiglets1 · 01/05/2025 10:56

quantumbutterfly · 01/05/2025 10:18

Elections in Israel
Elections in Israel are based on nationwide proportional representation. The electoral threshold is currently set at 3.25%, with the number of seats a party receives in the Knesset being proportional to the number of votes it receives. The Knesset is elected for a four-year term, although most governments have not served a full term and early elections are a frequent occurrence
Proportional representation
Proportional representation refers to any electoral system under which subgroups of an electorate are reflected proportionately in the elected body. The concept applies mainly to political divisions among voters. The aim of such systems is that all votes cast contribute to the result so that each representative in an assembly is mandated by a roughly equal number of voters, and therefore all votes have equal weight.

I wonder what UK parliament would look like under PR.

Very different I imagine… our 2 main parties have not had the courage to move to PR as they want to keep it a 2 horse race.

quantumbutterfly · 01/05/2025 10:18

Elections in Israel
Elections in Israel are based on nationwide proportional representation. The electoral threshold is currently set at 3.25%, with the number of seats a party receives in the Knesset being proportional to the number of votes it receives. The Knesset is elected for a four-year term, although most governments have not served a full term and early elections are a frequent occurrence
Proportional representation
Proportional representation refers to any electoral system under which subgroups of an electorate are reflected proportionately in the elected body. The concept applies mainly to political divisions among voters. The aim of such systems is that all votes cast contribute to the result so that each representative in an assembly is mandated by a roughly equal number of voters, and therefore all votes have equal weight.

I wonder what UK parliament would look like under PR.

Baital · 01/05/2025 10:14

As the elected government seems pro-settler it is reasonable to assume the population who voted for them are pro-settler, surely?

Comedycook · 01/05/2025 08:59

hareclive · 01/05/2025 08:54

from hearing/reading Israeli politicians and spokespeople ...netanyahu, Tzipi Hovelly, Eylon Levy, Ben Gvir, Daniella Weiss etc...and just that I can't find any Israeli spokespeople AGAINST settlements. none of the self appointed advocates for Israel that I have found speak against Settlements

I expect you to criticise my sources. but instead why don't you point me to the sources that will enlighten me

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I don't have to enlighten you. I haven't made any claims I need to back up.

You have named five people...yet you say the majority of Israelis support the settlements... Israel has a population of ten million. You can't possibly know what percentage support the settlements

Whatsinanamehey · 01/05/2025 08:56

hareclive · 01/05/2025 08:42

oh yes, these were actually shown in the documentary weren't they. do you have any idea what percentage of the population they would be?

you would hope that a large majority would be as horrified as we are. as I understand it, most think that settlement is important for their security

Show quote history

Sorry I don't know what percentage they are. Sadly, over time they have increasingly come under fire by the settlers who view them as 'traitors'.

Original poster
hareclive · 01/05/2025 08:54

Comedycook · 01/05/2025 08:45

it is my understanding that the vast majority of Israelis support Settlements?

Yes I remember your thread from last night. Was pleased it got deleted. Anyway...with regards to the comment you made which I've highlighted above...can you explain where your "understanding" comes from?

from hearing/reading Israeli politicians and spokespeople ...netanyahu, Tzipi Hovelly, Eylon Levy, Ben Gvir, Daniella Weiss etc...and just that I can't find any Israeli spokespeople AGAINST settlements. none of the self appointed advocates for Israel that I have found speak against Settlements

I expect you to criticise my sources. but instead why don't you point me to the sources that will enlighten me

OP posts:
Comedycook · 01/05/2025 08:45

it is my understanding that the vast majority of Israelis support Settlements?

Yes I remember your thread from last night. Was pleased it got deleted. Anyway...with regards to the comment you made which I've highlighted above...can you explain where your "understanding" comes from?

MissyB1 · 01/05/2025 08:43

I imagine there's a lot of ignorance and /or indifference to settlers by a lot of Israelis. And sadly probably a lot of support too, there are definitely members of their Government who actively support settlers.

Original poster
hareclive · 01/05/2025 08:42

Whatsinanamehey · 01/05/2025 08:39

There are a small minority on the left of Israeli society who don't only object to the settlers and their extremist behaviour but also try and protect the Palestinians from their violence. For example youth volunteers who try to help protect the farmers at times where violence is likely expected ie olive harvest season.
They are small in number and their efforts should be commended but unfortunately they are overshadowed by those who don't care or even support the settler movement which are greater in number.

oh yes, these were actually shown in the documentary weren't they. do you have any idea what percentage of the population they would be?

you would hope that a large majority would be as horrified as we are. as I understand it, most think that settlement is important for their security

OP posts:
Whatsinanamehey · 01/05/2025 08:39

There are a small minority on the left of Israeli society who don't only object to the settlers and their extremist behaviour but also try and protect the Palestinians from their violence. For example youth volunteers who try to help protect the farmers at times where violence is likely expected ie olive harvest season.
They are small in number and their efforts should be commended but unfortunately they are overshadowed by those who don't care or even support the settler movement which are greater in number.