This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 6)

agreed

All extremism is wrong.

Is a complete sentence as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't need to be followed by which side of this war we believe is worst or else we start going round in circles again.

All extremism is wrong. There is plenty of extremism on show in Israel and the OPT as well as the rest of the world.

What does it mean? Management of funding in an area where terrorist gangs operate mean you need to put into place very strict expensive checks to ensure funds don’t end up in the hands of or benefiting these same terrorist gangs. There is also the matter of not only doing the checks but keeping the records that prove where every penny went for auditing purposes.

I don’t see anything bizarre in the UK helping the PA ensure all humanitarian funds continue to not fund or benefit terrorists directly or indirectly.

( the PA has passed all prior independent audits of funds, proving none have funded terrorism to date. Unfortunately, since the war started Israel has been defunding the PA by keeping the share of taxes collected by Israel from Palestinians that should go to the PA. This defunding, makes the PA vulnerable and in need of financial assistance not only to keep public services going for Palestinians, but to ensure that none of the money ends up funding terrorism)

You asked what is stopping Hamas from putting the hostages in a car and driving to the Gaza border. I answered your question. They need a ceasefire to do it safely. They’ve sent numerous messages via the negotiators offering all the hostages in return for a ceasefire (not a temporary pause). For whatever reason no one can agree sustainably and there is currently no ceasefire in place.

You are also ignoring the fact that even when NGOs tell the Israelis where they are going and when and have IDF clearance to drive there in clearly marked vehicles, they still tend to be fired on with missiles and killed. It’s not as simple as just pass a message on and drive there.

The second intifada (Sep 00-05) was a direct response to Israel breaking the terms of the Oslo Accords in two major ways. In the accords in 1993 Israel promised a stop to illegal settlement of the West Bank - instead Israel TRIPLED illegal settlements in the West Bank from 1993-2000.

The PLO recognised Israel as a state and affirmed its right to exist. In 1999, despite what it had agreed to in the Oslo accords, Israel refused to recognise a Palestinian state even though all the conditions for statehood had been fully met by the Palestinians (PLO).

Israel also renenged on the Oslo accords in 1994 by beginning construction of the West Bank separation wall and the bypass roads that no Palestinian was allowed to drive on. It wasn’t the building of a border wall itself so much as the decision to build it not along the agreed borders so that Palestinian land was being de facto annexed into Israel. Wherever the segments of the wall was being built, it included built in checkpoints. This was in addition to flying checkpoints.

After the second intifada started, it was then said the West Bank wall was built in response to it, but that is a bit of history revision as construction started in 1994 after the idea had been proposed in 1992 by PM Yitzhak Rabin who said that Israel must "take Gaza out of Tel Aviv"

In addition no Palestinian could drive back and forth from West Bank to Gaza or into Israel as many times as they wanted as from 1991 exit and entry permits were required.

You seem to be missing the point. Hamas can release the hostages any time they like. They can tell their negotiators to get a message to the Israeli side and let them know when and where the hostages will be returned. Stop infantilising Palestinians, you're not helping them.

I see the testimony of Eli Sharabi on that twiX feed you linked. 😞

Any car driving towards the border will be incinerated by IDF shooting a hellfire missile from a drone in minutes.

Don’t you comprehend that a ceasefire is needed in order to safely transport the hostages?

We're just entering the utterly bizarre now. £101million of British tax payer money is going to the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank in order to teach them how to raise and manage money. The minister says it 'might feel like high ambition work. We need to accept that' 😵‍💫

And what does that even mean? £101million in order to learn how to raise and manage money is insane.

Video of UK minister on X

What is Ben-Gvir doing that is stopping Hamas just putting the hostages in a car and dropping them off at the Gaza-Israel border?

I've not demanded anything. I'm just surprised you think only one form of extremism is wrong. If you think all forms of extremism are wrong why all the dodging and deflecting? Why the obsessive blaming Jews for everything?

And it would be less of an 'open air prison' if as soon as Jews left Gaza Hamas didn't immediately start importing weapons. And there were never checkpoints in the West Bank, indeed you could drive non-stop between Gaza and the West Bank as many times as you liked, until Palestinians started the second Intifada and blew up packed restaurants and rush hour buses with grenades and suicide bombers. Palestinians had a choice, now they're in a mess of their own making.

Israel is the only country I know of who has plenty of public bomb shelters in towns and cities, and safe rooms in homes as standard. All because of Palestinian terrorism.

I'm sure there's some who'd love nothing more than for Israelis to stop protecting themselves. But it's not going to happen.

I agree it all seems very hopeless for them.

Their troubles will not end with the end of the war, in all likelihood.

Yes exactly. It's one of the reasons I feel so sorry for Palestinians. They grow up in a culture where they glorify death, even that of their own children. They have a government that has openly said they use them as human shields and martyrs for their cause. A government that had brought death and destruction down on them and 'allies' in the West who just gloss over it all because they're so obsessed with only one side. I think their allies have gone so far down the rabbit hole of anti-Israel obsession they've lost some sense of rationality.

It should be an easy thing for us all to say any extremism is wrong.

It's a war that Hamas started. But to use your 'example'...

Mouth, visualise you are flying over Dresden, and look at the scene below.
Now take your mind's eye to Manchester and do the same.
Are you sure it's the Nazis who are the more violent?

Hamas deliberately started a war they couldn't win. They could end it today by releasing the hostages unconditionally. They haven't and they won't.

Hamas also murdered two Palestinian civilians yesterday who were trying to access the aid Hamas have illegally stockpiled.

Free Palestine from Hamas.

Perhaps you can point out which poster has said only extremism on one side Is wrong because I can't see it anywhere.

No I confess I don’t understand why people on here won’t just say all extremism is wrong.

It's a baseless assumption in my opinion. Especially when it's Polly who demands people call out extremism whilst she only does it with the caveat that Palestinian extremism is worse. You can see why some posters won't be willing to engage with that.

It’s not a dig at anyone in particular just a reflection that some people can say all extremism is wrong others can’t which doesn’t bode well for peace in Gaza if even Mumsnetters can’t agree on that.

If that was a dig at me then from my previous post..

which is obviously wrong regardless of who is doing it,

It's like talking about murder and demanding everyone on the thread write out a post that murder is wrong and whoever doesn't that means they don't agree, I hope you can see how ridiculous that is.

I think all extremism is wrong too @PollyPaintsFlowers

It’s sad that others on this thread can’t bring themselves to agree with that one belief. If we all want an end to fighting, that should be the one thing we can all agree on.

Makes you realise there is no hope of peace in Gaza. When even on Mumsnet people can’t just agree all extremism is wrong regardless of who we think is “worse”.

@PollyPaintsFlowers who wrote
"Palestinian violence is on a whole other scale. "

Polly, visualise that you are flying over Gaza, and look at the scene below.
Now take your mind's eye to Tel Aviv and do the same.

Are you sure it is the Palestinians who are the more violent ?

Countless videos of Israelis saying that is right to kill the Palestinian kids because you have to kill the nest etc… An Irish surgeon who volunteered in Gaza talked about a family where the kids were shot in the head by IDF from an Apache helicopter - countless children shot in the head and the limbs at close range. This is an extermination. This is genocide.