This is the reality of what Israel is doing (part 6)

They have form for this, from 2010 where 9 people were killed and many more injured.

The fact that the flotilla had to be organised in secrecy as it was calculated that Israel would likely attack.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/31/israeli-attacks-gaza-flotilla-activists

Oh fuck, that's terrible. It's like the freedom flotilla all over again.

Israel attacks a Freedom Flotilla ship off the coast of Malta.

https://x.com/GazaFFlotilla/status/1918131538794864916

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx27z0r8n5do

https://www.israelhayom.co.il/news/world-news/europe/article/17870405

Israel aren't going to say no thanks if Hamas releases the hostages without condition.

The Nazis lost WW2, they didn't put conditions on their surrender. Hamas can lay down their arms and release the hostages any time they like. They've lost the war they need to surrender

How dismissive you are of Palestinians. I thought you cared? Why do you feel that the lived reality of Palestinians under Hamas is irrelevant in a thread about Palestinians?

Do you have anything to say about the suffering of Palestinians under Hamas? Or are you only bothered if Israel is involved?

Don't you agree it would be better for everyone, as well as better for the chances of long term peace, for Hamas to just release the hostages and go?

I see you have ignored all of @sugarandspice answers to you Polly, is it because you know she is correct? And instead just moved on to your next bit of copy and pasting from X.

I agree, and you're welcome

Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib hits the nail on the head perfectly again. I could recognise a few posters on here who are just as he describes

'We failed the pro-freedom, anti-Hamas, pro-peace Palestinian protesters in Gaza; the terror organization is executing some of them while others are facing harassment from a brutal campaign of repression by the Jihadi organization, which is determined to prevent the emergence of any opposition to its fascistic rule. Some are frantically reaching out to me, asking why I haven’t been able to mobilize greater support for them or obtain resources and backing to enable their growth and expansion. The sad reality is that I have been working tirelessly behind the scenes, meeting with American and foreign politicians, journalists, analysts, experts – some are immensely interested, others less so. Most are paralyzed by a sense of helplessness, even though these demonstrations present a unique opportunity for a serious breakthrough.

Additionally, the so-called “pro-Palestine” movement has entirely ignored and deliberately overlooked these actual freedom fighters, because pro-Hamas narratives and exclusively anti-Israeli sentiments have become widespread in this form of activism. Shame on anyone who didn’t elevate the voices of the forgotten, the voices of the truly voiceless, who are desperate to tell the world about their love for life, peace, freedom from Jihadi Islamist terror, and desire to pursue a prosperous future for themselves and their families.'

They aren’t going to give up the only power they have for no return.

As for BenGivr he more or less said the hostages don’t matter. He relishes the whole war, and can now hope they’ll get Gaza.

CEASE-FIRE: Yehuda Cohen, father of hostage Nimrod , said that far-right ministers Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich are pushing to conquer Gaza instead of reaching a cease-fire and bringing back the hostages. "[Ben-Gvir and Smotrich] want to keep fighting not to break Hamas – Smotrich has said in the past that Hamas is an asset – but to take advantage of October 7, all of the murder, suffering, burning, rape from that day, to conquer Gaza and establish settlements," he said, adding that Netanyahu is delaying the hostages' return for his own political and personal benefit.

(Haaretz briefing yesterday.)

Thank you for the links.

I think a lot was also due to Sinwar as an individual.

Hamas’s political leader, Ismael Haniyeh, has openly admitted that Iran provides approximately $70 million per year to his group and, in addition to financing, Tehran has also provided logistical support for weapons development, assistance that helped Hamas produce rockets and drones with sophisticated guidance systems. Iran has helped Hamas smuggle rocket components into Gaza from the Sinai Peninsula and into a subterranean labyrinth of tunnels, where they are then assembled at production facilities operated by Hamas. Tactical training, which would account for the complexity of Hamas’s combined arms siege of Israel, occurred in camps outside of Gaza. Hezbollah trained Hamas militants in both Lebanon and Syria, where terrorists learned how to use motorized hang gliders and storm mock Israeli settlements that had been constructed.

Iran and the 'axis of resistance'

NBC News - Victims of Hamas attack in Israel and their families blame Iran in new federal lawsuit

The text in the previous post is from here

“Iran bears direct responsibility for the October 7 Attacks,” according to the lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. “Indeed, that point is essentially undisputed. The Iranian regime has openly flaunted its motive for aiding the horrors.”
While it’s not clear what role Iran played in the attacks, a former U.S. intelligence and military officer said in October that the sophisticated tactics Hamas used to attack Israel indicated Iran most likely played a significant role in the multipronged assault.

Iran knew all about it Secret Documents Show Hamas Tried to Persuade Iran to Join Its Oct. 7 Attack

Why would Iran stop others rising up when they funded the attack? @PollyPaintsFlowers

Iran didn't know about it. If they had have done, they'd have said "Don't do it" and Hamas knew that, so they didn't tell them.
They certainly didn't tell Hezbollah, because they knew they leaked like a sieve.

Although it just sounds like military bluff and bluster. Wasn't Putin threatening to use nukes at some point?

Clearly they weren't.

IDF Chief of Staff Eyal Zamir said the IDF is ready and prepared to strike a decisive blow against Hamas. "We will use all the power at our disposal, increase the pace and intensity of the operation. If required, we will do so soon, with determination in the righteousness of our path," he said.

I wonder what this means as I thought the IDF were already doing that.

Yes exactly, they kept it a secret from everyone apart from Iran who funded them. But they thought it would be like lighting a touch paper and others would rise up. Why would Iran stop others rising up when they funded the attack?

Yes I'm sure. Complex answers require too much thought.

Hamas believed that Hezbollah, Palestinians in Jordan, Arabs inside Israel and possibly Syria would also join in with the assault. Quoth @PollyPaintsFlowers

No they didn't. Hamas kept it a secret from everyone, including the Iranians.

Weeks later when they were being pounded, they believed Hezbollah and others would come to their aid, but they were mistaken. It's likely Iran ensured that.

As for the rest of your post ? Well maybe some other time.

To answer you aswell. How did Hamas think things would play out? That Israel would do nothing? Even after Hamas threatened to commit further massacres? If they didn't want a war why carry out such a horrific provocation?

Furthermore, it was said by plenty of warfare experts and analysts that Israel had fallen in to Hamas' trap. I agree. But I don't think Israel had a choice after what had happened and with the threat of it happening again

Hamas believed that Hezbollah, Palestinians in Jordan, Arabs inside Israel and possibly Syria would also join in with the assault. They didn't, only Hezbollah. Hamas officials posted on social media their disappointment, and pro-Hamas Muslims around the world expressed anger on X and in Telegram channels at what they saw as the failure and cowardice of Muslims in that region in not joining in and rising up. This was all shared and played out on social media at the time.

There's a NATO report that I can link you to with quotes from the Hamas leadership after the 2014 war where they said that civilians are used as human shields and martyrs for the cause and that they will fight till the last Palestinian is dead. The resulting war which inevitably caused civilian casualties as all war does feeds in to the propaganda war that their leaders have spoken about on Arabic tv. You can see the videos on Memri.

Hamas leaders and supporters revelled in the bad press Israel got after the war started and claimed repeatedly they were winning. So in their minds the destruction was worth it. Because their sole intent was to diminish and hopefully destroy Israel, or the 'Zionist entity' as they call it. Though what alternative was there, Hamas said they would commit further 7/10s, Israel has to protect it's people. Whether they've gone too far is another matter.

Negotiations stalled with Hamas demanding unreasonable requests like Israel paying to rebuild Gaza. Until Trump said Gaza would be cleared out and then Egypt and other ME countries came up with a day after plan to avoid Trump and Netanyahu following through with clearing out Gaza.

But that deal doesn't involve Hamas staying in power. That was never Hamas' plan, they always intended to stay in power. Now they've changed tact and said they want to evolve into a purely political party in the hope of being able to stay..

So they won, in that they've weakened Israel's standing internationally, it's not crumbled as they'd hoped, but they've lost in that Egypt wants them out, their people are rising up against them, the Palestinian Authority has called them sons of bitches and told them to get the hell out of Gaza, and the West appears to be strengthening their arch enemy the Palestinian Authority possibly with the view of the PA replacing them

So for most countries massive death and destruction wouldn't look like winning, but for Hamas it does. Or it did, but now they're losing because they're losing control and power

@PollyPaintsFlowers who wrote
"Hamas deliberately started a war they couldn't win."

So you think that Hamas attacked in October knowing what the Israeli response would be? If Hamas deliberately started it to achieve the devastation of Gaza it surely follows, that Hamas should be pleased that everything is going "to plan" and that Israel has fallen into their "trap."

You really believe that ?

As Hamas begins again executing Palestinians in Gaza for protesting — nine killed, others kidnapped and disappeared — the Western pro-Palestine movement remains deafeningly silent. You chant "Free Palestine" while ignoring Palestinians who demand freedom from a regime that tortures and kills them. You cry out against bombs, but say nothing about bullets fired into the heads of unarmed protesters by Hamas. This is not solidarity — it’s moral bankruptcy. If you can't condemn the fascists ruling us, then you're not standing with us — you're standing on top of us, speaking over our dead.

If you truly stand with Gaza, then act like it. Protest not only for the end of war, but for the end of tyranny. Raise your voice for the Gazans being executed, kidnapped, tortured, and silenced by Hamas. And if you mean what you say about liberation, then demand what Gaza needs most: Hamas’s surrender and disarmament. Your silence helps them kill. Your voice can help stop it.

Hamza Howidy. A non-extremist, anti-Hamas Palestinian

This is exactly the point I was trying to make above although probably not as clear as you have said it.