To think someone has got to stop the mass killings in Gaza

Mistakenly killed an activist. Terrible yes . It just doesn't compare to 2000 murdered deliberately on Oct 7th does it. Have you even heard of the Bibas family? There wasn't anything mistaken about that.

What on earth? So everything that happens in the West Bank is Hamas version of events too? See @Twiglets1 Palestinians just aren't believed, it's all Hamas version of events. It doesn't matter what it is they are automatically disbelieved by some. Not just that but they are all apparently Hamas too. What chance do they have really?

https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-819532

No idea you'll need to link and not just give me Hamas version of events.

What I do know is 2000 innocent people were deliberately tortured, raped and murdered on Oct 7th whilst the animals committing these atrocities filmed it all.

That actually happened.

So Hamas are to blame for an American woman being shot in the head at a protest in the West Bank?

You missed the whole point. When you are at a disadvantage from the moment you are born because Israel have set the rules that purposefully put you at a disadvantage you don't have to be taught to hate anyone. Palestinians aren't stupid. They can see what is happening. Why would they like Israel when they are treated that way from the moment they are born? Would you like a country who treated you unfairly and made your life difficult(understatement) based on nothing more than who you were born as?

What reasons do you think these boys have to like Israel?

'there was a young American woman shot in the head at a protest, Israel said it was a 'mistake'. How many Palestinians do you think this happens to'

People are tragically killed on both sides.

Until Hamas are obliterated and they elect proper civilised leaders who will negotiate then they're a bit stuck with senseless deaths.

It all sounds extremely toxic @Mylegishangingoff

However, there is nothing you can say that makes me think it’s ok that adolescent boys were growing up being taught to hate Israel, throwing stones with intent to harm & progressing to being active members of a terrorist organisation like Hamas. It was happening and being allowed to happen but after October 7th, it doesn’t seem possible that it can continue to be allowed to happen.

'Before Hamas, in Gaza, an Israeli army bulldozer was held back by Rachel Corrie a brave American solidarity volunteer who was trying to stop it illegally demolishing civilians homes. After a day long stand off the soldier got fed up, drove straight over her then reversed back over her'

Not quite what happened.

Perhaps the stone throwing would stop if these children weren't being forced to grow up in land where they are quite literally second class citizens. If you are Palestinian and want to build a house on your own land, forget it. An Israeli that wants to build a house on that Palestinians land, sure thing. If you are a Palestinian and want to collect rainwater, forget it. If you are an Israeli and want to build a well, sure thing. If you are Palestinian and want to walk down certain streets, forget it. Israeli sure thing. Palestinian schools buldozed, can we build another, no forget about you'll just have to move. Israelis can we build a school, sure thing. And on and on it goes. Let's not forget that Israelis throw stones too, they aren't subjected to the same punishments or the same courts. What can Palestinians do about it?

Even protesting means you take your life in your hands, like a poster pointed out Rachel Corrie, just last year there was a young American woman shot in the head at a protest, Israel said it was a 'mistake'. How many Palestinians do you think this happens to that we don't hear about or who Israel say deserved it and they are automatically believed because Palestinians aren't listened to. Just look what happened when 15 aid workers were killed after all.

So you have kids growing up in what is supposed to be their land, living under different rules to Israeli kids in the same area that puts them at a huge disadvantage throughout their life, living with the constant very real threat of death if they so much as protest about it. But instead of being outraged by that we say we would like to hear both sides of the story because there could possibly be a reason why it's fair to lock up indefinitely only Palestinian children for throwing stones?

And that's why this continues and continues because people constantly look for excuses as to why it's OK to treat Palestinians this way. From the moment they are born in the West Bank they are at a disadvantage to Israeli children because of the system Israel have set up and that continues for their entire lives. But why do they hate Israel so much, it must be because it's Jewish of course!

Why is their propaganda so successful? They are proscribed terrorists in the U.K.

Your description of Corrie’s death is so biased that it calls into question everything you’ve posted, frankly.

Organisations with documented anti Israel bias that is very well known and widely discussed. Yes, they are such objective arbiters when it comes to Israel’s actions!

There are also many legal analysts who totally disagree with this stance. It’s an entirely political question at this point and pretending that one side is objectively correct in their evaluation is dishonest. This just happens to be the side you agree with.

I won’t deny that from what you say, Israel did things prior to October 7th that were very wrong. Had there been more of an international outcry about those at the time and I had been aware of them, I would have spoken up about them and condemned Israel for certain practices. Like many people, I was unaware these things were happening. Though I would like to hear both sides of the story because while locking up children absolutely sounds wrong, teenagers throwing stones with intent to harm is not an innocent activity. It was a nuanced problem that needed to be resolved through diplomatic not military intervention.

But … those things did not justify October 7th which targeted not the decision makers in Israel but innocent civilians at a music festival.

October 7th wasn’t the start of everything.. but a bloody massacre by a terrorist organisation wasn’t the way to help the Palestinian people. It has achieved the completely opposite effect of forcing people to take sides. Who seems more culpable for the deaths - the IDF or Hamas? Sorry but to me (& much of the international community it seems) the answer is Hamas.

And before Hamas in Gaza the following happened:
An Israeli captain emptied his rifle into a 13 yr old schoolgirl with her backpack on, one shot from a safe distance then he approached and emptied his rifle into her prone body. His own soldiers testified against him but he was acquitted of all charges.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/nov/16/israel2

Before Hamas, in Gaza, an Israeli army bulldozer was held back by Rachel Corrie a brave American solidarity volunteer who was trying to stop it illegally demolishing civilians homes. After a day long stand off the soldier got fed up, drove straight over her then reversed back over her. It's all extremely well photo documented but no charges for the soldier

Before Hamas, in Gaza, Israel shot British 19yr old photography student in the head as he tried to rescue a child. Tom Hurndall's father gave an interview at the start of this genocide in which he said we should be very careful of the lying Israeli narrative that "the other side did it" because they did that in Tom's case and in many others.

Before Hamas, in the West Bank, Israel shot dead British cameraman Ian Miller.

Save the Children on the widespread abuse of Palestinian children taken hostage by Israel July 2023

https://www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/2023/stripped-beaten-and-blindfolded-new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-and-abuse-of-palestinian-children-detained-by-israeli-military

These are the sources UNICEF Child detainees OPT 2013. Israel is the only country in the world to try children in a military court and of course Palestinian children only. A 17 yr old Israeli settler who throws stones gets a civil law court with lawyers and parents present, just one example of Israel's apartheid system as found by the UN, ICJ, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, B'Tselem, Yesh Din, etc etc

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.unicef.org/sop/media/1746/file/CAAC%2520Bulletin%25202013,.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjSwd_Q48KMAxWjZ0EAHTDwC2wQFnoECB4QAQ&sqi=2&usg=AOvVaw2m7EYLFlyidND_8E7TVOy7

To those who keep saying "it's about Hamas and Oct. 7th" please explain the following. West Bank ruled by the Palestinian authority which renounced armed resistance 1993 and yet:

1. Save the Children issued a warning July 2023 because Israel had killed 32 unarmed Palestinian children in the West Bank that year already, after killing 34 the previous year (37 Israeli children unforgivably killed Oct. 7th several shown to be by Israeli fire)
2. Israel kidnaps 700-1000 Palestinian children (12yrs and above) puts them through military court and then in military jail with no parental/legal visits. There were 400 such children in Sept. 2023, more than all the hostages Hamas took. Majority charged with throwing stones, 147 held indefinitely on administrative detention without charge or trial

Everyone on the thread has condemned Hamas, as do I. But just for facts, Hamas has said in its charter and in a recent interview that they would lay down arms if the two state solution was implemented ie if Israel gives the Palestinians a state on 22% of what was their homeland - implemented international law, in other words. Meanwhile Netanyahu and Ben Gvir and all the other centre and right parties openly refuse the 2 state solution and have done since before Oct. 7th, they are more extreme than Hamas. Ben Gvir is a convicted domestic terrorist.

Israel is committing a genocide according to the UN, Amnesty international, Human Rights Watch, and Israeli professors of Holocaust and genocide studies Prof. Omer Bartov, Prof. Raz Segal, Prof. Amos Goldstein.

It's not "people are calling it" it's teams of legal experts.

I don't think we can say whether Hamas exists or not is irrelevant.

Netanyahu has stated that the war can only end when the hostages are released and Hamas are destroyed.

So if Hamas really wanted to stop the bloodshed they should put down their arms and agree to leave Gaza shouldn't they? And release the remaining hostages. Admit defeat (but they won't, they would rather carry on fighting to the bitter end than lose face).

It's not either of those things. It's about the goal of the people doing the killing. Neither the number nor the manner is really relevant.

What do you even mean by Hamas anyway , because too many Zionists talk as if Hamas is just every Palestinian man, woman and child.
And is Hamas on every side of Israel where borders have expanded at the cost of people being chucked off their land ? Is there a new victim blaming excuse for each house hold made homeless as these borders never cease to expand ?

Whether Hamas exists or not is irrelevant.
They haven't even been around since the start if what is falsely called a 'conflict ' (if that's what turfing people out of their homes is called ). Honestly, what a play on words
And Israel has been treating Palestinians worse than animals for decades
Look at the West Bank

They actually brokered the ceasefire. You know, the one Isreal breached.

I don’t understand your word salad but i do know thousands of Palestinians live freely in Israel, no Israeli’s lively freely in Palestine. Hamas were voted in by the Palestinian people which gave them the opportunity to take over, they hide amongst civilians whilst committing war crimes, Palestinians have told us this and protested. Hamas killed, rapped and kidnapped. They started a war. War is ugly. Propaganda is extremely influential and Hamas will be studied in the future for the power of their propaganda rather than their plight.