‘South Africa accused of prior knowledge of Hamas attack’

Thanks for that, @EasyTouch. A pretty nihilistic attitude if you're right, though.

Maybe they saw a levelling in aid, the longer Gaza was stable pre 10/7.
Less aid, less money for Hamas to steal, less leverage for Hamas to use in order to foster the close ties between too many Gazans and Hamas.
All those potentially idle young males in a population overwhelmingly consisting of the young ( due to Hamas policy of "encouraging" continual breeding in women of childbearing age, in order to feed the Gazan to Hamas pipeline) potentially left to think for themselves whilst gazing out their days.....there is too high a chance that too many of them may not come to as binary a conclusion about their society, Hamas or Israel as is needed for Hamas and anti Israel support outside of the region to thrive using the justification that it does, with the presumption that Gazans, etc support their tactics and message.
No palm greasing, more chance of an uprising of young, sturdy men rebelling against Hamas.
Relative stability will not bring in the increase in cash needed to keep Hamas operatives of any.strata in the lifestyle that they are accustomed to. Neither will there be enough money to encourage ordinary Gazans to think that being sitting ducks for Israel in order to justify Hamas or medical and teaching staff allowing Hamas access to their buildings is within the realms of sanity.

Hamas aint stupid. They cannot allow a significant amount of Gazans to think enough to finger point at them.

“How can you make a credible case of a crime before it’s taken place, especially when the people you are making the case on behalf of committed a crime to orchestrate the alleged crimes that they are making accusations of??!!”

Do you think SA knew exactly what IDF and Netanyahu would do? It’s like SA laid a trap for Netanyahu 😩

It’s such a shame that Netanyahu has then given SA (and the rest of the world) so much evidence of war crimes for the ICC to put out arrest warrants.

It is but I don’t have any more knowledge than anyone else.

I thought that's what this thread was about. Never mind perhaps the OP will come back to enlighten us.

Underestimating Hamas's military capability despite several warnings and evidence of battle plans and invasions was an unfortunate intelligence failure. I don't believe that Netanyahu intentionally allowed the attacks to happen but he has to take responsibility for the failures as any other leader in the same position should.

What I'm struggling to understand from this thread is what information is South Africa accused of withholding from Israel and the evidence for these extremely serious allegations which the article does not provide.

I already stated I know nothing about what information SA had or thought they had or didn’t have 🤷🏼‍♀️

Israeli officials conceded that they had the blue print of Hamas's Oct 7th attack. Not a warning by phone call or word by mouth heads up, but an entire fourty page battle plan document which they admit Hamas carried out pretty accurately.

What information is south Africa accused of having and what proof Is there of these allegations?

Did Hamas behead babies in Gaza as well?

imo they knew but they thought it wasn’t that likely so the warnings were dismissed. So I’m not sure SA knowing and telling them anything would have prevented 7oct and I can only see these news from this source a way to try and attack SA so we don’t take them seriously either their ICJ case against Israel.

So what information did south Africa have that Israel didn't. Do you have any credible links? Genuine question as i tried to look online but couldn't see anything.

As the article apparently explains @Arayofcalm Israeli government officials & military dismissed the plan as they didn’t think Hamas had the capability to carry it through.

Mistakes were clearly made & they under estimated what Hamas were capable of. But that’s not at all the same thing as them knowing a massacre was about to happen. Quite the reverse - they didn’t think it could happen.

I’m not accusing you of anything.

I said I find the suggestion that Israel knew the massacre was going to happen and did nothing offensive.

So Israeli officials had their hands on the fourty page document which outlined Hamas's step by step plan of the Oct 7th attack but let's blame South Africa instead even though there is no credible evidence or source to blame them.

From the article

Israeli officials obtained Hamas’s battle plan for the Oct. 7 terrorist attack more than a year before it happened, documents, emails and interviews show. But Israeli military and intelligence officials dismissed the plan as aspirational, considering it too difficult for Hamas to carry out.
The approximately 40-page document, which the Israeli authorities code-named “Jericho Wall,” outlined, point by point, exactly the kind of devastating invasion that led to the deaths of about 1,200 people.
The translated document, which was reviewed by The New York Times, did not set a date for the attack, but described a methodical assault designed to overwhelm the fortifications around the Gaza Strip, take over Israeli cities and storm key military bases, including a division headquarters.
Hamas followed the blueprint with shocking precision. The document called for a barrage of rockets at the outset of the attack, drones to knock out the security cameras and automated machine guns along the border, and gunmen to pour into Israel en masse in paragliders, on motorcycles and on foot — all of which happened on Oct. 7.

I'm not a subscriber either and I could read it just fine. Check your browser settings. But the majority of the article states that Israel knew at least a year before it happened and didn't care enough. Other countries warned and they still didn't care enough. This is down to Israel's top brass and politicians only.

Wtf are you on about? Where did I say anything that you accuse me of saying? Perhaps go read my post again.

Me neither.
what I know is that USA / Israel / Egypt knew there quite a likelihood of a terrorist attack but this was dismissed. So I don’t think another country / not knowing would have prevented 7 oct.

I don’t want to subscribe to the New York Times. Please copy & paste the article if you want us to read it.

I don’t know anything about what SA knew or thought they knew or didn’t know.

They knew. But they were just too fucking arrogant to care. Politicians and top brass never care about the ones they are supposed to protect. It's the same in every single country. Male pride and arrogance has a lot to answer for.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html

It's incredible how so many people on mumsnet think they know how intelligence agencies operate. I didn't realise so many mumsnet members were that plugged into SIS/CIA/Mossad/DGSE.

Learn something new every day...

I dont know. Maybe Israel would have taken the threat more seriously if SA had warned them. Maybe they wouldnt. But the point is that SA didn't warn them, which according to you doesn't matter.

It's a proxy war. They are funded and armed by Iran. They are paid soldiers, if you like. What those young men and their older leaders get is a wage, and funding to cause trouble for Israel.

That might not be the whole story, but I'd bet it's a big part, going on something similar that happened in Afghanistan with Iraq and the Taliban.