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Conflict in the Middle East

Hamas ‘quietly drops’ thousands of deaths from casualty figures

86 replies

Twiglets1 · 03/04/2025 12:42

Article in the Telegraph (unfortunately behind a paywall).

New research shows that Hamas has quietly dropped thousands of deaths from its Gaza war casualty figures.
Salo Aizenberg, from the US-based non-profit organisation Honest Reporting, said that Hamas’s March 2025 casualty update had removed thousands of people it previously listed as having been killed last year.
“Hamas’s new March 2025 fatality list quietly drops 3,400 fully “identified” deaths listed in its August and October 2024 reports – including 1,080 children. These “deaths” never happened. The numbers were falsified – again,” Mr Aizenberg wrote.

The casualty lists are released as PDFs by the Hamas-run Gaza ministry of health, which has been cited by international media as a source for fatality figures in the enclave since the start of the war.
A report by the Henry Jackson Society in December said that the number of civilians killed in the Gaza conflict had probably been inflated by Hamas in order to portray Israel as deliberately targeting innocent people.

Andrew Fox, the author of the report, said the latest deletions are likely to have been an attempt by Hamas to retain credibility.
“We knew there were rafts of errors in their reporting,” Mr Fox said. “There’s a reasonable explanation in that their computer systems went down in November 2023, so it’s been challenging for them to report accurately, but the lists are so unreliable that the world’s media shouldn’t be quoting them as reliable.”
He added: “The UN also just takes Hamas’s figures and publishes them with a note stating the figures are unconfirmed.”
The Hamas lists contain information such as names and ID numbers, and can be filled in by anyone with a link to the Google form for the document.
Hamas will “have gone through the list, trying to make it as convincing as possible. They’ve been accepting names onto that list with no evidence whatsoever”, explained Mr Fox. “So what I’m guessing they’re trying to do is thin out the names they cannot substantiate at all.”

Mr Fox, a former British paratrooper who has worked with Mr Aizenberg on previous research, said the teams use the publicly available Hamas data and cross-check it name by name.
“Salo’s research would be looking for names that were on previous lists but have now disappeared,” Mr Fox explained. “Hamas releases lists as PDFs, so it’s harder to do comparisons but we transfer names to an Excel sheet to do a mass comparison this way.”

About 72% of fatalities aged 13-55 are men, which is the rough age range of Hamas combatants, Mr Fox said. “We know that Hamas uses child soldiers, and these statistics show clearly that Israel is targeting fighting-aged men.”
In previous conflicts, Hamas figures have often been corroborated by external organisations, Mr Fox said.
The Henry Jackson Society’s December report said: “The ministry of health, operating under Hamas, has systematically inflated the death toll by failing to distinguish between civilian and combatant deaths, over-reporting fatalities among women and children and even including individuals who died before the conflict began.
“This has led to a narrative where the Israel Defense Forces are portrayed as disproportionately targeting civilians, while the actual numbers suggest a significant proportion of the dead are combatants.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/04/01/hamas-drops-thousands-of-deaths-from-casualty-figurures/

OP posts:
Martymcfly24 · 03/04/2025 15:31

Andrew Fox
The Henry Jackson Society
Honest Reporting

Do you think these sources are completely unbiased and impartial?

Twiglets1 · 03/04/2025 14:39

Same story reported by a different source

Hamas has previously claimed that 70% of casualties have been women and children, a claim no longer reflected in their recently updated lists, according to the research. Approximately 72% of fatalities between the ages of 13-55 are men - the demographic category aligns with Hamas combatants.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-848592

Hamas admits 72% of deaths are combat-aged men as it quietly reduces civilian death toll - report

Approximately 72% of fatalities are aged 13-55 and are men - the demographic category aligns with Hamas combatants.

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/defense-news/article-848592

OP posts:
Mylegishangingoff · 03/04/2025 14:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

One side lying to create mass scale hatred and hysteria? Did you not mean to say both here?

CrunchyKnees · 03/04/2025 14:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Mylegishangingoff · 03/04/2025 14:11

myplace · 03/04/2025 14:06

I think it’s an interesting area.

Clearly Hammas lists weren’t totally reliable- Hammas is saying as much itself.

Media should be reporting ‘According to Hammas…’ rather than repeating the figures as verified.

To be honest, I’d be surprised if anyone were able to wage war without civilian casualties and some incidents that could be judged ‘war crimes’. War is messy, dark, and best avoided. Aggressors should take note of the inevitable consequences before launching attacks on other countries.

They do, every article does. An example from the BBC.

The Israeli military says it is carrying out "extensive strikes" in the Gaza Strip, with the Hamas-run health ministry reporting more than 400 Palestinians have been killed.

www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9vy3k4dpz0o.amp

Mylegishangingoff · 03/04/2025 14:08

Hamas’s main goal of this war was to manufacture as much civilian death and as high a death toll as possible to create global outrage at Israel, discredit Israel on the world stage, and by doing that revive global antisemitism.

This is really ironic. Considering the stories of '40 beheaded babies' and 'babies in ovens' that were on the front pages of all of the papers worldwide following Oct 7. It worked for Israel too. Not a thing in 'mainstream papers' when those stories were 'quietly dropped'.

myplace · 03/04/2025 14:06

I think it’s an interesting area.

Clearly Hammas lists weren’t totally reliable- Hammas is saying as much itself.

Media should be reporting ‘According to Hammas…’ rather than repeating the figures as verified.

To be honest, I’d be surprised if anyone were able to wage war without civilian casualties and some incidents that could be judged ‘war crimes’. War is messy, dark, and best avoided. Aggressors should take note of the inevitable consequences before launching attacks on other countries.

Mylegishangingoff · 03/04/2025 14:00

CrunchyKnees · 03/04/2025 13:26

What on earth?

Can you explain what you mean?

How is it spreading propaganda to expose Hamas lying about casualty figures? How anyone believed them in the first place is mind boggling anyway.

Hamas’s main goal of this war was to manufacture as much civilian death and as high a death toll as possible to create global outrage at Israel, discredit Israel on the world stage, and by doing that revive global antisemitism.

How these medieval monsters managed it I don’t know, and it obviously wasn’t off their own back, but they pulled it off extremely successfully, clearly showing that humanity doesn’t need much of a reason to hate Jewish people and conversely reinforcing why Israel is so important.

Anyway Hamas lies have been known about for a long time. Good to finally see MSM reporting it.

How is it exposing Hamas lying? It's repeating what Hamas have said. Hamas are the one who have 'quietly dropped'(so quietly it's been in the news for days) numbers. That's why I am asking if the op doesn't believe Hamas then why is she repeating Hamas. Why does it matter if Hamas are dropping 3000 or adding 3000 if its all lies anyway and if its all lies anyway then why is the OP posting about it?

Twiglets1 · 03/04/2025 13:29

Mylegishangingoff · 03/04/2025 13:09

Why would a lying terrorist organisation revise down their death numbers suddenly and why are you believing them? Why is the telegraph just taking Hamas numbers and reporting it? Either you believe Hamas or you don't, if you don't or the telegraph don't then why are you spreading more what I presume you would regard as 'propaganda'?

Reasons why Hamas may have revised the death numbers down now are explained in the article.

Nearly all media sources were "just taking Hamas numbers and reporting it" - that point is made in the article too.

Hamas are a terrorist organisation so I have no reason to believe them about anything I can't see verified from more reputable sources. As the article says, "Hamas’s March 2025 casualty update had removed thousands of people it previously listed as having been killed last year".

OP posts:
CrunchyKnees · 03/04/2025 13:26

Mylegishangingoff · 03/04/2025 13:09

Why would a lying terrorist organisation revise down their death numbers suddenly and why are you believing them? Why is the telegraph just taking Hamas numbers and reporting it? Either you believe Hamas or you don't, if you don't or the telegraph don't then why are you spreading more what I presume you would regard as 'propaganda'?

What on earth?

Can you explain what you mean?

How is it spreading propaganda to expose Hamas lying about casualty figures? How anyone believed them in the first place is mind boggling anyway.

Hamas’s main goal of this war was to manufacture as much civilian death and as high a death toll as possible to create global outrage at Israel, discredit Israel on the world stage, and by doing that revive global antisemitism.

How these medieval monsters managed it I don’t know, and it obviously wasn’t off their own back, but they pulled it off extremely successfully, clearly showing that humanity doesn’t need much of a reason to hate Jewish people and conversely reinforcing why Israel is so important.

Anyway Hamas lies have been known about for a long time. Good to finally see MSM reporting it.

Mylegishangingoff · 03/04/2025 13:09

Why would a lying terrorist organisation revise down their death numbers suddenly and why are you believing them? Why is the telegraph just taking Hamas numbers and reporting it? Either you believe Hamas or you don't, if you don't or the telegraph don't then why are you spreading more what I presume you would regard as 'propaganda'?