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Conflict in the Middle East

To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen in over 20 years? (thread 2)

315 replies

ThisNattyTurtle · 30/03/2025 09:07

Israel has been found to be committing genocide in Gaza by legal teams from the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch. Israel has deliberately attacked MSF ambulances and clinics and the World Central Kitchen killing overseas volunteers including a British army vet.
See Amnesty video explaining below

Jewish-American Dr. Mark Perlmutter on what he saw in Gaza and why he believes it's deliberate genocide (warning - heart breaking)
s
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Ia9sa0iuwHw

On average one child is being killed every 45minutes. Over 100 were killed 18th and 19th March alone. There has been a total blockade preventing entry of food or medicine since the start of March.

Israel is an apartheid state according to the ICJ, UN, B'Tselem, Yesh Din, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch.

The British government is supporting Israel in this genocide with military recon flights and arms. Our government did not stop supporting White Apartheid South Africa until it was forced to by British people's outrage, and by the global boycott. It is time to do the same again to show that we do not accept genocide and that we really do stand by the values of international humanitarian law.

Dr Mark Perlmutter describes finding ‘distinct signs of genocide’ in Gaza

“Genocide was the overwhelming impression that I got.”Orthopaedics surgeon Dr Mark Perlmutter described to Democracy Now on Thursday that he found “distinct ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=116s&v=2QdalGDpCIU

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ThisNattyTurtle · 02/04/2025 06:26

HellsBalls · 02/04/2025 05:56

No government is interested because they all understand the only way towards peace is the eradication of Hamas.
The IDF are not indiscriminately killing children. They can prove they do targeted, intelligence lead strikes against the terrorists.

How can they prove it?
How are 2,000lb dumb bombs dropped on apartment blocks -targeted? How?
Do you think the American, Irish, British doctors who's testimony is on this thread are lying?
Do you think the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch are lying when they said it was a genocide?
Do you think B'Tselem is just lying when it describes how Israel is systematically torturing Palestinian detainees including sexual abuse and rape? (B'Tselem report "welcome to hell").
Please explain the medical and legal expert sources and evidence that you have used to refute the above.

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HellsBalls · 02/04/2025 05:56

Anotherparkingthread · 02/04/2025 02:47

It absolutely devistating and I have no idea why nobody is doing anything. I hope the uk will look back on this and feel immense shame for our inaction.

I no longer speak to anybody who supports Israel. I don't have time for such revolting people.

No government is interested because they all understand the only way towards peace is the eradication of Hamas.
The IDF are not indiscriminately killing children. They can prove they do targeted, intelligence lead strikes against the terrorists.

Anotherparkingthread · 02/04/2025 02:47

It absolutely devistating and I have no idea why nobody is doing anything. I hope the uk will look back on this and feel immense shame for our inaction.

I no longer speak to anybody who supports Israel. I don't have time for such revolting people.

RandomWordsThrownTogether · 02/04/2025 01:54

There was an account by an Irish surgeon in the Irish Times today, he went to Gaza during the ceasefire and was due to leave when the ceasefire was broken by Israel. He was in Nasser hospital when it was bombed. He said the majority of casualties and injured that were brought in were children under 14.

“The majority of cases arose from being shot or “blasted with shrapnel”, he said, including his youngest patient, about four months old, whose belly was pierced by shrapnel.

“I had an 18-month-old as well and when he came off the ventilator, he was crying for his mother and father and they were dead,” he said, adding that there are “scores” of children now orphaned in Gaza. Other children have been left paralysed, having suffered brain and spinal injuries.”
….

On his second-last night, last Tuesday, a family of five was brought in, he recalled. “They were shot by an Apache helicopter, one of the most sophisticated pieces of machinery in the world,” he said. While the mother suffered minor injuries, her two children, aged about four and five, were killed, he said, while her 11-year-old daughter and her husband suffered “severe injuries”. “The dad died later that night and we operated on the 11-year-old until about 3am. She’ll probably survive, but the chances are she’ll end up losing both of her legs and maybe one arm,” he said.

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2025/04/01/irish-surgeon-returns-from-gaza-every-night-there-were-more-children-brought-in-dead/

This is a country with sophisticated weapons and trained snipers that with all their training somehow hit more children than any other group. That is not an accident, that is an extermination.

A country that binds the arms and legs of paramedics, lines them against a wall and shoots each of them over 20 times then crushes and buries their ambulances to hide their war crimes. Targeting paramedics and doctors is to leave the population without medical care and hasten the populations demise, just as targeting journalists leaves them without anyone to bear witness, to bury their crimes beneath the sand.

Dr Morgan McMonagle, who has just returned from Gaza, said the majority of his patients were children

Irish surgeon returns from Gaza: ‘Every night there were more children brought in dead’

Irish surgeon returns from six-week humanitarian mission in Gaza

https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2025/04/01/irish-surgeon-returns-from-gaza-every-night-there-were-more-children-brought-in-dead/

Camde · 01/04/2025 23:43

You’re extremely naive to think that Israel allowing a 2 state solution in the West Bank would solve the problem.

The Palestinian Authority are far from ‘pacifist’. They continue to offer a ‘pay for slay’ policy, whereby the families of any Palestinian terrorists that kill Israelis are given huge sums of money.

And Hamas would absolutely not ‘step down’, if granted the West Bank. They are an Islamic extremist terrorist organisation who are a proxy of the IRGC Islamist regime in Iran. Their desire, as they have repeatedly stated, is to destroy Israeli entirely and kill all Jews in the region. They believe fervently that the Middle East should consist of Islamic countries only.

if they are given the West Bank, then they will continue to shoot rockets into Israel and attempt to repeat October 7th style massacres. Except this time, they will be even geographically closer to Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

There can be no peace sadly whilst Hamas continue to be in power. It’s inspiring seeing the brave Palestinians standing up to them recently, despite huge danger. Some have already been assassinated by Hamas for doing so tragically.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 01/04/2025 23:24

It’s completely hideous and I hate that our government support this killing in our names.

ThisNattyTurtle · 01/04/2025 22:31

Before the 1930s indigenous Arab Jews, Christians, Druze, Muslims, Armenians, all lived in peace in Palestine. The initial waves of European Jewish immigrants (fleeing persecution by Christian Europeans) were welcomed by Palestinians, given land and lodging in many cases. The Jewish population of Palestine rose from 4% to over 30% in about 15 years, and then it became apparent that the plan was to establish a Jewish majority state on half of the land (contrast that with 6.5% muslims in the UK over 60 years and the intense panic and pearl-clutching). That's when Palestinian opposition began.
Do you see any European country voluntarily giving up land for foreigners to build an exclusive state on? Even the country that carried out the Holocaust? Nope, their solution was to take land from an inferior brown people and give it to Jews by way of reparation.
Read Ilan Pappe "the Ethnic cleansing of Palestine" or Avi Shlaim, British-Israeli and Oxford history Prof "Israel and Palestine".

From the latter - written before Israel's genocide started:
"Israelis look down on the Gaza Strip as a hotbed of political extremism and religious fanaticism. What Israelis tend to overlook is the part that they themselves have played in reducing the Gaza Strip to this sorry state. Only 146 square miles in size, Gaza is one of the most heavily populated areas on earth. It is home to a large number of refugees from the 1948 and the 1967 wars. Conditions in the refugee camps are an affront to civilised values. Yet side by side with this indescribable destitution and misery there existed affluent Jewish colonies, surrounded by barbed wire and heavily protected by the IDF. In 2005, there were 1.4 million Palestinians living in Gaza, and less than 8,000 Israelis. Yet the Israelis controlled 25 per cent of the territory and 40 per cent of the arable land. Not surprisingly, the Gaza Strip became a breeding ground for extremism, fanaticism and suicide bombers."

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Letmecallyouback · 01/04/2025 20:51

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Good grief.

ThisNattyTurtle · 01/04/2025 20:50

This is not a Hamas Vs Israel conversation and the only reason people keep making it that is to avoid answering some very difficult questions about why our ally is shooting handcuffed paramedics in the head and bulldozing their ambulances.
Answer that
We're not funding Hamas we're finding the paramedic killers.

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ThisNattyTurtle · 01/04/2025 20:48

Snitchyorwitchy · 01/04/2025 20:09

Hamas is the worst thing that has happened to Gazans and the Palestinian cause. They are extremists and terrorists, funded from nefarious states.
They are well known as murderers of their own people - happy to use civilians as cover, murder political opposition etc etc.

Even the (hated) state of Israel has respect for women, political opposition, minorities... within their own state.

The only realistic chance of a long lasting peace is one without Hamas.

In Beit Lahiya the Gazan population are now rising up against Hamas. That shows things are changing in Gaza. Brave people to stand up against a group famed for murder of political opposition.

The discourse needs to move on from Israel being the only "bad" actor here. Gaza needs moderates who will respect that Israel as a land of Jews and other non-muslim minorities exists, and has always existed, in some form or another.

Instead we just get endless one sided vitriol.

The secular Palestinian authority in the West Bank renounced armed resistance in 1993 and agreed to the 2-state solution in which Israel gets to keep 78% of historic Palestine, and the Palestinians get to build a state on 22% (the West Bank+ Gaza + East Jerusalem).
Since 1993 til Oct. 6th 2023, Israel subjected the West Bank to child killing, an Oct. 7th every 1-2 years in numbers, child and adult abduction (700 children aged 12+ per year put through military court with a 98% conviction rate without parental or legal visits - UNICEF child detainees OPT 2013, Save the Children 2019), violent land theft by the increasing no. Of illegal Israeli settlers (700,000 now) who deliberately go and live inside the 22% left to Palestinians under international law.
There was no ceasefire before Oct. 7th unless by ceasefire you mean a situation in which Israel could kill Palestinians with impunity but no Israelis got killed.
So given the above, please explain Israel's actions in the West Bank.

Israel bombed Gaza 4 times from 2006 to Oct. 6th, and had it under total siege by land air and sea.

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Snitchyorwitchy · 01/04/2025 20:22

Wars are always horrific. That's history and reality.

But long term peace generally comes only if either one side is completely destroyed - or some kind of stable equilibrium evolves.

Since 2006 there was some kind of stable equilibrium. That ended on Oct 7. It needs to be regained.

Israel's resolve is moderating and opposition forming to their govt and similarly Gazans are seeing Hamas as a problem. Both societies are slowly seeing the need for peace.

One can hope.

Snitchyorwitchy · 01/04/2025 20:09

Hamas is the worst thing that has happened to Gazans and the Palestinian cause. They are extremists and terrorists, funded from nefarious states.
They are well known as murderers of their own people - happy to use civilians as cover, murder political opposition etc etc.

Even the (hated) state of Israel has respect for women, political opposition, minorities... within their own state.

The only realistic chance of a long lasting peace is one without Hamas.

In Beit Lahiya the Gazan population are now rising up against Hamas. That shows things are changing in Gaza. Brave people to stand up against a group famed for murder of political opposition.

The discourse needs to move on from Israel being the only "bad" actor here. Gaza needs moderates who will respect that Israel as a land of Jews and other non-muslim minorities exists, and has always existed, in some form or another.

Instead we just get endless one sided vitriol.

MissyB1 · 01/04/2025 19:59

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If you think that murdering children is a positive thing then I am seriously worried about you. So glad I don't know you in real life.

Ooral · 01/04/2025 19:49

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ThisNattyTurtle · 01/04/2025 17:46

Amnesty calling on the UK govt to stop its complicity on genocide

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/actions/restart-ceasefire-now?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=MAEN523T_AFR_CRSS_IsraelApartheid_CeasefireLeadGen&utm_content=c_br_l6_C19&utm_term=120218456103960753&fbclid=IwY2xjawJY92xleHRuA2FlbQEwAGFkaWQBqxoOVgdCYQEdBHKsDIJ9-m7mAyDCaDw8NcGnAKa5pGUQS0lGLlFlL3pzDYBgYh53yndh_aem_GulkNyh3Y1KyFtxGBeI6Ag&utm_id=120218454764150753_v2_s12_e6966#

Demand an immediate restart of an enduring ceasefire

Urge the UK government to call for an immediate restart of an enduring ceasefire, an end to Israel’s genocide against Palestinians in Gaza, and the dismantling of its system of apartheid and unlawful occupation of Palestinian territory now. Sign the pe...

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/actions/restart-ceasefire-now?fbclid=IwY2xjawJY92xleHRuA2FlbQEwAGFkaWQBqxoOVgdCYQEdBHKsDIJ9-m7mAyDCaDw8NcGnAKa5pGUQS0lGLlFlL3pzDYBgYh53yndh_aem_GulkNyh3Y1KyFtxGBeI6Ag#

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ThisNattyTurtle · 01/04/2025 11:30

https://www.unocha.org/news/un-relief-chief-urges-international-action-protect-civilians-gaza

We are on the wrong side of history and worse, we are making a mockery of everything that was fought for during the second world war and all the lessons learned. We are, on the international stage, funding and arming an open genocide. We are declaring that we are ok with hospitals and ambulances being systematically bombed and destroyed, healthcare workers abducted raped and tortured, children shot dead as they flee.

That is what the British government is supporting, right now, on the world stage. I do not consent, do you?

Jana, centre, holds hands with her siblings as they stand amidst the rubble of their destroyed home in Rafah.

UN Relief Chief urges international action to protect civilians in Gaza

Statement on Gaza by Tom Fletcher, Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator

https://www.unocha.org/news/un-relief-chief-urges-international-action-protect-civilians-gaza

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Letmecallyouback · 01/04/2025 09:30

ThisNattyTurtle · 31/03/2025 23:28

See the below from Jonathan Whittall of OCHA via his X feed.
Good God. This is the most documented genocide in history. One day our grandchildren will be trawling though these images and will ask us, how, how could you have let this happen? How could our country have supported this??

…And still they say ‘but what else could Israel do?’ #Unfuckingbelievable…

Letmecallyouback · 01/04/2025 09:17

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For clarity, do you mean that murdering children might be the best way to stop killing in future? 😳

ThisNattyTurtle · 31/03/2025 23:39

Statement attached

To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen in over 20 years? (thread 2)
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ThisNattyTurtle · 31/03/2025 23:39

Statement from OCHA. Contrast that with the nonsense spoken by our government as they try to justify a genocide.
Our own Foreign Office has advised the govt several times that there is grave risk of breach of international law.
They don't have money for winter fuel payments or disability support - but 1.5 years of rampant genocide that's top financial priority.

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ThisNattyTurtle · 31/03/2025 23:28

See the below from Jonathan Whittall of OCHA via his X feed.
Good God. This is the most documented genocide in history. One day our grandchildren will be trawling though these images and will ask us, how, how could you have let this happen? How could our country have supported this??

To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen in over 20 years? (thread 2)
To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen in over 20 years? (thread 2)
To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen in over 20 years? (thread 2)
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ThisNattyTurtle · 31/03/2025 23:12

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The figures from the Gaza Health Ministry were audited by the UN in Nov. 2024 and found to be entirely accurate, just as they have been when the UN audited in every previous attack by Israel on Gaza.
Please find me one credible NGO that questions the figures. None of those one the ground do.
The Lancet published a peer-reviewed article which used statistical analysis to estimate losses and concluded the official tally was likely 20% undercount because it excludes those still buried under the rubble.
The under-secretary general of the UN said the scenes in Gaza are the worst he has ever seen in a career that started with the Killing Fields in Cambodia.
The figures come with ID card no's and the ID cards are registered with the Israeli security services, because they control all facets of life in Gaza.

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Ooral · 31/03/2025 23:06

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ThisNattyTurtle · 31/03/2025 23:00

Fordian · 31/03/2025 15:43

But the reality is, who is setting ‘the rules’? Who is enforcing them? That’s not to suggest I’m okay with a free for all, but you’ll notice all the calls have been for a Israeli ceasefire; no one is bothering demanding that of Hamas because the world knows it’s pointless, that they’re not going to follow any rules.

Yet we squeal ‘crime!’ At Israel.

These false parallels are abject nonsens.
Hamas is a terrorist group as per the UK and already under sanctions. We do not supply arms or money to Hamas - unlike Netanyahu, who funnelled money to Hamas in order to undermine the secular Palestinian authority and foment civil war amongst Palestinian factions. Now I wonder why he would do that?

Israel killed nearly an Oct. 7th number of unarmed Palestinian children in each of 2022 and Jan-Sept 2023 (and for years prior) yet we continued to fund and arm Israel. Israel* kidnaps Palestinian children, 700/year, holds them without legal or parental visits, and abuses them (Save the Children 2019) yet we continued to fund and arm Israel. *
Israel is currently committing a genocide according to the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch, with the highest rate of child slaughter since the Rwandan genocide yet we continue to arm and fund them. Is that who Britain is on the world stage in 2025? Really?

We do not arm and fund the rebels in the Congo nor the RSF in Sudan. We don't host them in the White House, in Downing Street, or in FIFA. We don't send them weapons with which to slaughter children.
And, by the way, those advocating for Palestine overlap hugely with those advocating for Congo and Sudan. I have yet to see someone supporting Israel turn up for Congo or Sudan - it's just a useful distraction "hey they're having genocides too why can't we??"

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