To be horrified that Israel is slaughtering children at a rate not seen in over 20 years? (thread 2)

Another interview from the amazing Dr.s Mark Perlmutter and Feroze Sidhwa. Perlmutter is president of the world trauma surgery federation and wore his Star of David while saving lives in Gaza. Here he describes how his Palestinian medical colleagues were treated by Israel:

". I have an orthopedic surgeon colleague here who was taken out of the operating room.
His fingers were crushed. they showed him a picture of his wife from a spy, not from a magazine or an old photo, and had metadata and said it was taken the day before up close and said, we're going to bring her here in front of you and we're going to gang rape her in
front of you if you don't admit that you're Hamas or we'll keep breaking your fingers. He still didn't admit he was Hamas. And they said, well, then we're going to send a drone through your bedroom window and incinerate your children. And he still wouldn't admit he was Hamas.
They beat him every time he asked to speak to a lawyer and beat him twice as hard after he spoke to his lawyer. And he spent 11 months in prison having probes inserted up his rectum by female IDF members who said that the probe was soaked in pork blood."

https://zeteo.com/p/us-embassy-tells-us-doctor-in-gaza

On a lighter note, here are some snippets of the Israeli army ("the most moral army in the world") taken from their very own video feeds, and there are loads and loads and loads of these photos and videos of them rifling through the belongings of displaced or killed Palestinians, wearing lingerie while calling the Palestinian women sluts and whores, defacing and destroying kids' toys. This is the stuff they're proud of doing.

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https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-soldiers-play-with-gaza-womens-underwear-online-posts-2024-03-28/

In fact, if the international community had actually upheld the rule of law and condemned/sanctioned Israel for its ongoing land theft, apartheid, hostage taking and child killing, two decades ago, the Palestinians would not have been driven into the arms of Hamas and Oct. 7th would not have happened. That is what Antonio Gutierrez meant when he said Oct. 7th didn't happen in a vacuum. Hamas is rightly sanctioned for its war crimes. It is now high time that Israel is sanctioned for its war crimes which predated October 7th and predated Hamas, and for its current genocide. That means the UK, US, EU ending arms sales and funding, sporting cultural and academic boycott just like those against apartheid South Africa, until Israel is forced to reform itself.

...but it's not being condemned. Which is the whole point of this thread. Hamas is rightly condemned and sanctioned.. Israel should be sanctioned for its war crimes and genocide and apartheid.
I can see both sides - I've been to both sides. I can see both sides of Jim Crow and South African apartheid and anti-feminism - but one of those sides was quite wrong

Meanwhile - what are your thoughts on the evidence of Israel routinely torturing hostages including children, before and after Oct.7th 2023? (Evidence all linked above from reputable NGOs)

I'm very open to sources. I often ask for them, repeatedly. I do not claim that no hostage was tortured because it is possible that some were. But I am challenging the mainstream media reporting and the comments on here which imply that all the hostages were tortured by those brown barbarian Arabs. Because there is a lot of evidence to the contrary.
I am very open to sources, always happy to read facts and evidence.
Nuance, sure. But Israel is committing genocide as per the UN, Amnesty and Human Rights Watch - that's a legal term not a nuance. Israel is an Apartheid state as per the UN Amnesty Human Rights Watch B'Tselem Yesh Din etc etc. also a legal term not a nuance. Our media does not report these very important facts for some reason, so I am providing balance to their narrative.

@MNHQ why has this thread been moved out of AIBU again? There are at least 3 Ukraine threads and a lot more Trump threads on there. Please can this thread about a genocide that the UK is complicit in be reinstated to AIBU

https://www.btselem.org/publications/202408_welcome_to_hell

Of course since Oct. 7th things have gone completely insane. Israeli NGO report on the horrific torture and abuse that is ROUTINE in Israeli jails below. 60 Palestinian detainees have been killed while in custody ie tortured to death including a 17 yr old and 48yr old Adnan Al-Bursh head of Orthopedic surgery who was taken away by soldiers, screams heard for hours, then staggered back into the prison courtyard naked from the waist down and bleeding profusely having been anally raped with various objects. He died within hours and Israel still hasn't released his body.

Israel meanwhile has been systematically abusing and torturing the Palestinian hostages it holds from before and after Oct. 7th
Before:
Josh Paul US State dept received credible info of a 15 yr old raped in Israeli military jail. They asked the Israeli govt to investigate - the next day the Israeli army raided the NGO that had reported it and declared it a "terrorist organisation". His interview is on YouTube.

Save the Children July 2023 report showed Israel routinely abused, including sexual abuse, the child hostages they held in military prisons.

https://www.savethechildren.org.uk/news/media-centre/press-releases/2023/stripped-beaten-and-blindfolded-new-research-reveals-ongoing-violence-and-abuse-of-palestinian-children-detained-by-israeli-military

Noa Argamani testimony how her fellow hostages were killed by Israeli air strikes. There is more testimony where she describes how awful her situation was, due to scarcity of food and water (because, of course, the Gazans themselves had no food and water during this time). No beatings, no rape, no torture. She, like many of the hostages, is an Israeli soldier.

Yasmin Porat, survivor from one of the kibbutz, describes how Israeli soldiers, instead of negotiating with the Hamas captors, shelled a small kibbutz house in it killing all 12 hostages including a 13 yr old girl, she was the only survivor. A UN investigation concluded that several of the 37 children killed on Oct 7th were killed by Israeli army fire (Hannibal directive). There were no "beheaded babies" or babies in ovens or any other such malicious false propaganda, Israeli media reported that was a lie 3 weeks after Oct. 7th but our media never corrected it.

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As for torture of hostages, none of them have come out in person describing torture as far as I am aware. Many hostages and survivors described seeing fellow hostages die due to Israeli army bombardment. Many describe their captors protecting them (because they need them as bargaining chips). Why would Hamas kill them? Like with the poor Bibas children, why would they keep soldier hostages alive but kill children? The whole point of taking hostages is to have leverage. It is an absolute war crime and I do not excuse it whatsoever, but it is a war crime Israel commits much much more frequently long before Oct. 7th

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/03/we-were-constantly-in-terror-israeli-hostage-tells-of-captivity-in-gaza
Hamas protected hostages with their own bodies

Young Israeli girl describing her time as a hostage. She faced vile death threats from Israelis for being nice about Hamas, in their words
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIMfc1y59mM&t=35s&pp=ygUXV2UgcGxheWVkIGFybSB3cmVzdGxpbmc%3D

Why won't Israel release all the hostages it's holding? The 147 children held on administrative detention in Sept. 2023? The 400 children in Israeli jails in Sept. 2023 most of them charged with "stone-throwing"? They could have had all the hostages back Oct. 9th. Why is Israel choosing genocide over applying international law?
Hamas are a terrorist group. Ben Gvir is a convicted domestic terrorist in Israel and his entire party are insane Israeli religious extremists who want all Arabs dead or gone (these are the people voted in by Israel). Would you accept Hamas bombing the Israeli MoD in downtown Tel Aviv and flattening 50 buildings around it to get to Ben Gvir and his terrorist cronies? No? Strange that.

Israel has been shown to have repeatedly bombed or shelled UN compounds in Gaza and Lebanon, UN vehicles, MSF buildings and ambulances, and of course they bombed BOTH World Central Kitchen cars, one after another, as they travelled along a pre-approved route authorised by the Israeli army ten minutes prior, with huge WCK logos on their roofs. They killed 9 foreign aid workers including a former British soldier. "Western-leaning" ""moral army" my aunt Fanny

MSF: Why we won't accept the narrative of ‘regrettable incidents’ in Gaza
Home
Palestine
Gaza Isr
Speech5 April 2024
The following remarks were made by Christopher Lockyear, Secretary General Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) International, to members of the press during a briefing on the war in Gaza, Palestine, on 4 April.
I want to extend my deepest condolences and those of the entire MSF family to the family, friends, and co-workers of the seven colleagues from the World Central Kitchen, who were brutally killed two days ago.
We, like many organisations, depended on them for feeding patients and staff. I personally saw our staff waiting for them to bring food before leaving work at the end of the day.
Since the beginning of the war, nearly 200 humanitarian workers have been killed, including five MSF staff. Many of these humanitarians were killed while providing care for patients or sheltering with their families.
We have been saying it for weeks now - this pattern of attacks is either intentional or indicative of reckless incompetence.
It not only shows the failure of deconfliction measures; it shows the futility of these measures in a war fought with no rules. That these attacks on humanitarian workers are allowed to happen is a political choice. Israel faces no political cost. Instead, its allies enable this brutality with impunity, and provide even more weapons that maim and kill civilians indiscriminately.
The number of aid workers killed in Gaza is extraordinary, yet it is but a fraction of the total number of people killed so far. Now, nearly 33,000 men, women and children.
What happened to World Central Kitchen, to us, to humanitarian workers across Gaza, to Al-Shifa hospital and the pulverising of the health system when it is needed most – this all demonstrates the near daily undermining and manipulation of International Humanitarian Law.
This war is brutal. This war is disproportionate. This war is without precaution.
It also demonstrates the flagrant disregard of the ruling on the prevention of genocide from the International Court of Justice on 26 January and again two months later on 28 March.
We expect more. We expect more than excuses from Israel, and we expect more than condemnations from Israel’s allies...

We don't accept the narrative of ‘regrettable incidents’.
We do not accept it, because what has happened to World Central Kitchen, and MSF’s convoys and shelters, is part of the same pattern of deliberate attacks on humanitarians, health workers, journalists, UN personnel, schools, and homes.
This is not just about implementing an effective deconfliction mechanism – our movements and locations are shared, coordinated and identified already.
This is about impunity, a total disregard for the laws of war, and now it must become about accountability.
I was personally promised an investigation into a convoy of ours that was attacked in November. I have had no response. I have since filed a dossier of further incidents – I am still waiting for a reply. We will not let this go.
We expect more. We expect more than excuses from Israel, and we expect more than condemnations from Israel’s allies.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VVjZ_XpbIDQ&pp=ygUSbXNmIHRlc3RpbW9ueSBnYXph

https://www.msf.org/why-we-wont-accept-narrative-regrettable-incidents-gaza

To the poster asking why there is no video of the paramedics being detained and executed; they were in an area of Rafah from which all civilians had fled due to heavy Israeli attack. The ambulance was given the greenlight by the Israeli army to go retrieve wounded people - then found buried under sand with the handcuffed bodies of the paramedics next to it, shot dead. The ammunition Israelis use and Hamas use are completely different.
This is a genocide and those of you defending it sound just like the last defenders of Jim Crow laws and South African apartheid, one day these words and attitudes will be studied to understand "how did people let this happen?"

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/12/amnesty-international-concludes-israel-is-committing-genocide-against-palestinians-in-gaza/