Hamas and Gazans revolting

I tried to share this on AIBU and mn swiftly deleted it. Seems sharing truths about how Amnesty suppressed criticism of Israel isn't allowed! Says its because 'its behind a paywall' the number of items shared on mn behind paywalls and copied previously seems to have been missed! Strange

I doubt it. Hatred of Israel trumps the ability to realise that Hamas want conflict. Where were all those Hamas go signs ?

Sensible post quoting where deaths might cine from in total nit tge screaming narrative usually seen on these threads.

The government's holding money of leaders of Hamas either dead or still living should seize all the money to give to the ordinary Gazans after Hamas are gone.

This.

True.

Well done to the brave people in Gaza standing up to the vile Hamas. They need support more than ever to finally get rid of the terrorists running Gaza. Good luck to them.

Thats just awful, he was so brave, as are all those Palestinians out there on the streets and those who’ve had to flee Gaza because of Hamas.

I really do hope that one day there can be a state for Palestinians, governed by democracy and decency so people can live happy safe lives. Theres a special place in hell for Hamas there really is.

How incredibly brave to protest like that. I hope there is no retaliation by Hamas although fear there might be

Should we start anti Hamas protests in the UK in solidarity with Gaza?

And pigs might fly!

But it is good news that Gazans are starting to see who's fundamentally to blame for their current situation. What a pity they don't have the resources to look at the deep deep levels of corruption in Hamas (misuse of foreign aid, for one thing).

What a superb piece @ScrollingLeaves. The point about Iran is especially salient.

I watched an interview with a former officer in the British army. He now goes into war zones to try to find out the reality of what is happening. He investigated the 50,000 casuality number, remembering this figure come from Hamas who rule Gaza. Firstly, he said these figures are comprised of all who have died since the war began. Not just those who died because of the war. A quarter of those 50,000 are people who would have died anyway even if there had been no war. Secondly those figures do not distinguish between Hamas fighters and civilians, they are all bundled in together. Thirdly, he uncovered evidence of Hamas manipulating the figures such as counting young adults as children. And so he went on.

Also urban warfare does have a high death count. Its unavoidable. But Israel has forewarned civilians to evacuate ( a courtesy Hamas did not extend on October 7th nor has it in subsequent terrorist attacks in Israel - yes they are still sending terrorists into Israel to murder civilians) - the huge number of Gazans we saw returning to Gaza in the recent ceasefire is testament to the success of this in saving civilian lives.

At the end of the day, wars end because one side is so comprehensively destroyed it realises it cannot continue. That means a lot of death. Though in this case, Hamas actually could have ended the war (that it never needed to start) by releasing the hostages and laying down arms.

I blame Hamas firmly for all the Israeli and Gazan suffering.

He was later murdered by them, I believe.

From Haaretz
This OPINION is worth reading I think.

Will Human Rights Groups Join Gazans in Condemning Hamas?
This is a moment of truth. Every human rights organization must speak out, clearly and unequivocally, in support of the protesters, against Hamas's repression, and against the Israeli government's dismissal of their voices

Amnesty International suspended its local Israeli chapter in January, in part because we made Hamas' crimes, against Israelis as well as Palestinians, salient. Before the suspension took place I, as the deputy director encountered a troubling pattern: a tendency by the movement to minimize and downplay legitimate and important criticism of Hamas. Now, as courageous Palestinians in Gaza rise up and protest against Hamas and the ongoing war, this moment is a moral reckoning for the human rights world.

Senior figures in Amnesty International's movement demanded that we remove a position paper published on rhetoric dehumanizing Israelis and glorifying Hamas used among certain progressive circles in the West, particularly in the United States. Members of Amnesty International hinted that condemning Hamas too much may bolster the Israeli narrative. A universal commitment to human rights means refusing to play the zero-sum game of political legitimation. After all, Amnesty's criticism of Israel could just as easily be seen as serving the Iranian narrative – a regime that is clearly oppressive – yet this has never been, and should never be a reason to avoid speaking out against Israel. But my words fell on deaf ears.

Some of us from the <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/PTRC3/www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-01-08/ty-article-magazine/.premium/absurd-and-tragic-israeli-chapter-responds-to-suspension-from-amnesty-international/00000194-465e-dff1-a7bc-dfff1e320000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">suspended Israeli chapter of Amnesty have since launched the now-independent Pro-Human Campaign. This new initiative seeks to address the blind spots of much of the global human rights community, specifically in this regard.

Although we have spoken out forcefully against Israel's conduct, we were still branded as "hasbara," agents of Israeli propaganda, simply because we called out Hamas's atrocities against both Israelis and Palestinians, alongside Israel's human rights abuses.

Now, Palestinians in Gaza are calling for peace, and are rejecting Hamas' repressive rule. There are increasing reports that Hamas is violently suppressing these demonstrations.

These protesters, trapped between two oppressive regimes, have endured unimaginable suffering throughout the last year and a half of war, waged by Israel. Its campaign against Gaza has been marked by numerous actions that likely constitute severe war crimes.

And yet, these protesters understand Hamas's central role in their tragedy: that the October 7 massacre of Israeli civilians gave Israel the political license to unleash unrestrained violence; that Hamas's continued holding of hostages serves as a limitless pretext for Israel's ongoing military assault; that Hamas protected only its own members (in tunnels) from bombings, while leaving civilians exposed; and that, fundamentally, Hamas is a brutal, authoritarian regime that treats the civilian population as a means to its own ends – even if it costs them their lives.

These protests are not only courageous. They are deeply moving.
They represent the true victims of this war: alongside the Israeli hostages and the victims of the massacre, these are the civilians whose suffering has gone unheard.

They also directly challenge Israel's extremist government: any continued assault on civilians calling for peace will lay bare the fact that this is not about self-defense.

This is a moment of truth. Every human rights organization must speak out, clearly and unequivocally, in support of the protesters, against Hamas's repression, and against the Israeli government's disregard of their voices. This is a test of our shared humanity. To date, voices of support for the protesters are rare in the human rights field.

nd yet, these protesters understand Hamas's central role in their tragedy: that the October 7 massacre of Israeli civilians gave Israel the political license to unleash unrestrained violence; that Hamas's continued holding of hostages serves as a limitless pretext for Israel's ongoing military assault; that Hamas protected only its own members (in tunnels) from bombings, while leaving civilians exposed; and that, fundamentally, Hamas is a brutal, authoritarian regime that treats the civilian population as a means to its own ends – even if it costs them their lives.

These protests are not only courageous. They are deeply moving.
They represent the true victims of this war: alongside the Israeli hostages and the victims of the massacre, these are the civilians whose suffering has gone unheard.

They also directly challenge Israel's extremist government: any continued assault on civilians calling for peace will lay bare the fact that this is not about self-defense.

This is a moment of truth. Every human rights organization must speak out, clearly and unequivocally, in support of the protesters, against Hamas's repression, and against the Israeli government's disregard of their voices. This is a test of our shared humanity. To date, voices of support for the protesters are rare in the human rights field.

I meant that the official Israeli assumption/assertion has been that any detained or shot Palestinian male was a terrorist including those formerly detained men who were released under the ceasefires some of whom were definitely terrorists but by no means all.

It’s incredibly brave, I think a lot of Hamas’ crimes against Gazans themselves are overlooked in the west. I remember a few months ago a young anti-hamas activist had both his arms and legs broken. I don’t think you can be pro-Palestinian and pro-hamas, they have done nothing good for Palestinians.

I don’t think anyone assumes those men are terrorists.
The terrorists are the government, not general population.

Surely no one presumed that all the young men in Gaza are Hamas terrorists.

I mean if they were then who would be the bakers, builders, plumbers etc etc.

I was struck watching the news last night by how the protesters include so many young men who up till now have been effectively presumed to be terrorists.

It is brilliant, brave and inspiring.
It takes balls to protest against the government and imo it’s the right thing to do.
Hamas has an agenda that doesn’t seem to align with the your everyday Palestinian.
Politics should never be based around religion.

Reminiscent of the incredibly brave opposition to the Iranian government (who of course fund Hamas and the Houthis)

To turn the argument around there appears to have been more anti Hamas protests by Palestinians in Gaza than anti Hamas protests by the Palestinian marches in the UK.

This is despite the fact that protesting against Hamas in Gaza risks getting yourself killed whereas protesting against Hamas in the UK should be safe, although clearly there is the case of Niyak Ghorbani being assaulted and arrested by the Met Police in London for describing Hamas as a terrorist organisation.

Well I'm sure that's true to some extent. I think in any war there will be civilian casualties and the pressure on Israel to somehow have zero innocent lives taken is ridiculous. Hamas started a war; this is what happens in war.

Yes, I agree, Israel does try to limit civilian casualties, although with 50,000 dead, I'm not sure how hard. I'm not sure this is because they actually value Palestinian lives much though, I think it's more public image. Every dead Palestinian child is a propaganda win for Hamas, Israel know this.

I was discussing this with my husband yesterday… with so many top Hamas officials being killed recently it does indeed raise the question of whether the IDF are being tipped off by locals re where they are located.

News of these protests from within Gaza do make that seem more plausible.

Yes, I think it's brilliant news, although probably too little too late.
I have always thought Hamas has a lot more support amongst ordinary Palestinians than some like to pretend and wiping out Israel completely is a dream they won't give up. Likewise, I think many, many Israelis have their own 'river to the sea' dream and would like every Palestinian gone. The hatred runs so deep on both sides. It's very, very sad.

Oh I see - yes that is disappointing from Al Jazeera.

I also have enjoyed reading their coverage of worldwide news in the past. People accuse the BBC of being biased ( & maybe they are I’m not sure) but not on this scale.