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Conflict in the Middle East

Hamas and Gazans revolting

238 replies

mids2019 · 26/03/2025 23:14

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g71lk09npo

I think it's a real positive that brave Gazans are now protesting against Hamas openly demonstrating at least some of the population can see it is Hamas that has brought death and destruction to the enclave.

The irony is that war trodden Gazans are protesting in harsh conditions possibly risking death against Hamas while in your average 'Pro Palestine' March in London there are very limited signs with Hamas out. Should we start anti Hamas protests in the UK in solidarity with Gaza?

Wide angle photograph of hundreds of people walking through a street in Beit Lahia, northern Gaza as part of an anti-Hamas protest

Hundreds join largest anti-Hamas protest since Gaza war began

Masked Hamas militants dispersed protesters who gathered in northern Gaza to rally against the group.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g71lk09npo

OP posts:
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1dayatatime · 23/05/2025 09:11

@SalmonDreams

"What narrative would that be? Most people opposed to the actions of the Israeli government always preface their criticism by condemning hamas and the 7th Oct attack"

It's a bit like a disclaimer along the lines of "I condemn Hamas but..." or "Hitler was a terrible person but..." or "child sex offenders are evil people but...

This is very different to a balanced criticism of both sides. There is a clear absence on the pro Palestinian protest marches of any criticism of Hamas, indeed in a few cases there has been outright support and anyone who has criticised Hamas has either been physically attacked or arrested.

quantumbutterfly · 22/05/2025 22:56

quantumbutterfly · 21/05/2025 18:20

It is disturbing to read so much one sided dogma on here about historical events that I know quite differently. As for the vitriolic hyperbole, just words.
I'm more worried about the words that persuaded the guy down the road to build a bomb in his garage, or the young girls round here to go off and join daesh, those words created actions in the real world and that is a problem.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy9vr10n732t

Washington DC shooting live updates: Man charged with first degree murder of Israeli embassy staff

Couple Sarah Milgram and Yaron Lischinsky “were in the prime of their lives” before they were shot dead near a Jewish museum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy9vr10n732t

SalmonDreams · 22/05/2025 10:07

mids2019 · 27/03/2025 06:10

I agree it won't be discussed much on this thread as it counter the overall narrative that some wish to put forward.

What narrative would that be? Most people opposed to the actions of the Israeli government always preface their criticism by condemning hamas and the 7th Oct attack.

You can be critical of more than one entity and nothing, absolutely nothing justifies the killing and suffering inflicted upon the people in Gaza.

1dayatatime · 22/05/2025 08:41

@Martymcfly24

This is a very good article that explains my points on Hamas far better than I have:

www.indexoncensorship.org/2025/05/arrested-criticising-hamas-london-peter-tatchell-palestine-march-protest/

Also:
www.spectator.co.uk/article/why-are-there-more-protests-against-hamas-in-gaza-than-in-britain/

niyak ghorbani has frequently been attacked for condemning Hamas and has even been arrested by the Police for protesting against Hamas:

1dayatatime · 22/05/2025 08:19

@Martymcfly24

"A person protesting against Hamas on the streets of London or Dublin cannot bring about any change in Palestine in the lives of civilians . Hamas will.not in any way be effected by this protest.
(I fully think they should be gone) Plus even if they were gone Israel still are planning ethnic cleansing and withholding aid .

The same person protesting in the same march against their government supplying arms, allowing US planes to Israel to refuel, or supporting Israel financially has a better chance of being heard and affecting change for the lives of civilians.Now they may be ignored in the short term but at the end of the day politics is a popularity contest and people power works"

It's a frequent explanation explaining the lack of public condemnation of Hamas, along with:
"Israel is a western democracy so we expect higher standards"
"Israel is a western ally so we should focus on their behaviour "

The problem with this approach is that the coverage becomes very one sided if the protesters, the media and the government only call out the actions of Israel whilst remaining silent on Hamas. Whenever Hamas is brought up then the stock answer is :
"Of course I condemn Hamas but ...."

The problem with a one sided coverage / protest / media against Israel and simply being silent or much less coverage on Hamas is that this inevitably creates a picture of "Israel are the bad guys and we'll only comment on Hamas when pressed for an answer ".

As a result every protest against Israel whilst being silent on Hamas is effectively support for Hamas staying in power. And whilst Hamas stay in power the destruction and deaths will continue.

If the goal is genuinely to prevent further destruction and deaths then the focus of the protesters, media and government should be calling for Hamas to leave power.

Martymcfly24 · 21/05/2025 23:57

1dayatatime · 21/05/2025 20:38

@ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend

"The really sinister thing is that I don’t think most of them even care about average Palestinians, they just hate the Jewish people and the Jewish State"

"Sad you need to try and convince yourself of this rubbish to justify what Israel are doing."

But if the protesters in the West genuinely care about the plight of ordinary Gazans as you claim, then can you explain why in the marches that there are no calls for the removal of Hamas from power and why in the rare instances that a protester has called for Hamas to be removed or simply describing them as a terrorist organisation that they are then physically attacked.

Can you not see that this then beings into question their true motive for protesting.

A person protesting against Hamas on the streets of London or Dublin cannot bring about any change in Palestine in the lives of civilians . Hamas will.not in any way be effected by this protest.
(I fully think they should be gone) Plus even if they were gone Israel still are planning ethnic cleansing and withholding aid .

The same person protesting in the same march against their government supplying arms, allowing US planes to Israel to refuel, or supporting Israel financially has a better chance of being heard and affecting change for the lives of civilians.Now they may be ignored in the short term but at the end of the day politics is a popularity contest and people power works.

Where were the protesters attacked for calling out Hamas? Not being sarky genuinely interested in what kind of people would do this?

SparrowsEatUpToHalfTheirBodyWeightADay · 21/05/2025 23:46

Al Jazeera could follow suit with the bravenes.....

ArtTheClown · 21/05/2025 20:45

"The protesters directed their anger at Hamas's leadership after an interview with senior official Sami Abu Zuhri circulated on social media.
Speaking on a podcast which originally aired in late March, he said that the war with Israel was "eternal", adding: "We will rebuild the houses and produce dozens more babies for each martyr."

And this is why Hamas can't keep running Gaza. It'll be an ongoing nightmare for every person living there, and their Israeli neighbours.

The protesters are very brave.

1dayatatime · 21/05/2025 20:38

@ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend

"The really sinister thing is that I don’t think most of them even care about average Palestinians, they just hate the Jewish people and the Jewish State"

"Sad you need to try and convince yourself of this rubbish to justify what Israel are doing."

But if the protesters in the West genuinely care about the plight of ordinary Gazans as you claim, then can you explain why in the marches that there are no calls for the removal of Hamas from power and why in the rare instances that a protester has called for Hamas to be removed or simply describing them as a terrorist organisation that they are then physically attacked.

Can you not see that this then beings into question their true motive for protesting.

Twiglets1 · 21/05/2025 20:28

Palestinians have taken to the streets in southern Gaza for a third day to protest against Hamas.

Hundreds of demonstrators were seen in videos posted on social media calling for an end to the war and for the removal of the armed group from Gaza. "Out! Out! Out! All of Hamas, out!" they chanted.
Speaking out against Hamas can be dangerous in Gaza and threats circulated on journalists' WhatsApp groups on Tuesday, forbidding them from publishing any "negative news that could affect the morale of the people".
Activists said young people started the protests on Monday and were joined by others on their way to get food from community kitchens, who were still holding their pots.
The protesters directed their anger at Hamas's leadership after an interview with senior official Sami Abu Zuhri circulated on social media.
Speaking on a podcast which originally aired in late March, he said that the war with Israel was "eternal", adding: "We will rebuild the houses and produce dozens more babies for each martyr."
Videos from the protests in Khan Younis show young men criticizing Hamas for selling their "blood for a dollar… To those with Hamas, be aware the people of Gaza will dig your grave".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvmmr154v2o

Anti-Hamas protest in Khan Younis, southern Gaza

Anti-Hamas protests in southern Gaza enter third day

Protesters were seen in videos calling for an end to the war and the removal of the armed group from Gaza

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyvmmr154v2o

ArtTheClown · 21/05/2025 20:14

@ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend yes I've been following the situation, I am aware.

I'm talking specifically about interested parties outwith the area pushing for a ceasefire, and why there isn't more pressure being put on Hamas to go from Gaza, which would be the quickest way to actually end the conflict.

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 21/05/2025 18:59

ArtTheClown · 21/05/2025 17:59

Then the insistence on a ceasefire with no suggestion of what would happen afterwards

This is what has been puzzling me all along. If the Israelis had ceased fire, Hamas would literally have taken it as a victory. Then they'd have planned the next attack and the whole thing would have happened again. Plus it would leave Gazans suffering under Hamas, and with the ongoing painful restrictions that Israel deems necessary for security, having Hamas as next-door neighbours.

I mean fine, push for a ceasefire, but it should have been contingent on Hamas stepping down.

This is what has been puzzling me all along. If the Israelis had ceased fire, Hamas would literally have taken it as a victory. Then they'd have planned the next attack and the whole thing would have happened again.
There was a ceasefire agreement negotiated, it's not just a case of ceasing fire. Netanyahu was involved in the terms. You can read the full text here if you wish

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-gaza-ceasefire-full-text-agreement

If you do not think a ceasefire agreement is the right way to go to work towards a solution what is?

Israel-Gaza ceasefire: Full text of agreement

The plan includes the release of Israeli captives and Palestinian prisoners, the crossing of wounded Palestinian combatants and civilians to Egypt and the return of internally displaced people to their homes in northern Gaza

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-gaza-ceasefire-full-text-agreement

Sleepinggreyhounds · 21/05/2025 18:50

I have no idea why my response was hidden - it was mostly about greater efforts to cut financial pipelines to Hamas. Really not very controversial - certainly by the standards of this thread!

Sleepinggreyhounds · 21/05/2025 18:46

This reply has been hidden

This reply has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

quantumbutterfly · 21/05/2025 18:20

AIBUHere · 21/05/2025 15:37

Absolutely.

This is why this conflict, in particular, caught my interest and I started researching it.

That in addition to the global protests that started immediately after Oct 7th, not protesting against a terrorist organisation that had committed atrocities of the kind not seen in centuries and had kidnapped hundreds including babies and children and the elderly, but against the victims. Even ripping down their posters.

Shocking in the extreme.

Then the insistence on a ceasefire with no suggestion of what would happen afterwards, and that Israel must negotiate with, feed, water and supply energy and WiFi to these demons.

Hamas cheerleaders have definitely emboldened them to continue. It doesn’t take much in the way of logic to understand that. They lap up the propaganda like honey, despite much of it making absolutely no sense.

The really sinister thing is that I don’t think most of them even care about average Palestinians, they just hate the Jewish people and the Jewish State more than they hate evil demons who cut women’s breasts off while gang raping them, behead farming students with garden hoes, and parade dead bodies like they are trophies, which from a psychology point of view is horrific but also quite interesting.

I mean what have the Jewish people done to the world except contribute intellect, innovation, and technology, and the shaping of Western civilisation (which the majority of their haters greatly benefit from), despite centuries of persecution, expulsions and scapegoating?

It is disturbing to read so much one sided dogma on here about historical events that I know quite differently. As for the vitriolic hyperbole, just words.
I'm more worried about the words that persuaded the guy down the road to build a bomb in his garage, or the young girls round here to go off and join daesh, those words created actions in the real world and that is a problem.

ArtTheClown · 21/05/2025 17:59

Then the insistence on a ceasefire with no suggestion of what would happen afterwards

This is what has been puzzling me all along. If the Israelis had ceased fire, Hamas would literally have taken it as a victory. Then they'd have planned the next attack and the whole thing would have happened again. Plus it would leave Gazans suffering under Hamas, and with the ongoing painful restrictions that Israel deems necessary for security, having Hamas as next-door neighbours.

I mean fine, push for a ceasefire, but it should have been contingent on Hamas stepping down.

ComeAsYouAreAsAFriend · 21/05/2025 15:50

AIBUHere · 21/05/2025 15:37

Absolutely.

This is why this conflict, in particular, caught my interest and I started researching it.

That in addition to the global protests that started immediately after Oct 7th, not protesting against a terrorist organisation that had committed atrocities of the kind not seen in centuries and had kidnapped hundreds including babies and children and the elderly, but against the victims. Even ripping down their posters.

Shocking in the extreme.

Then the insistence on a ceasefire with no suggestion of what would happen afterwards, and that Israel must negotiate with, feed, water and supply energy and WiFi to these demons.

Hamas cheerleaders have definitely emboldened them to continue. It doesn’t take much in the way of logic to understand that. They lap up the propaganda like honey, despite much of it making absolutely no sense.

The really sinister thing is that I don’t think most of them even care about average Palestinians, they just hate the Jewish people and the Jewish State more than they hate evil demons who cut women’s breasts off while gang raping them, behead farming students with garden hoes, and parade dead bodies like they are trophies, which from a psychology point of view is horrific but also quite interesting.

I mean what have the Jewish people done to the world except contribute intellect, innovation, and technology, and the shaping of Western civilisation (which the majority of their haters greatly benefit from), despite centuries of persecution, expulsions and scapegoating?

and that Israel must negotiate with, feed, water and supply energy and WiFi to these demons.
Who are the demons?

You don't even understand the basics that denying humanitarian aid to civilians is collective punishment and a war crime.

The really sinister thing is that I don’t think most of them even care about average Palestinians, they just hate the Jewish people and the Jewish State
Sad you need to try and convince yourself of this rubbish to justify what Israel are doing.

AIBUHere · 21/05/2025 15:37

ArtTheClown · 21/05/2025 15:09

This is what is so frustrating- if the goal is genuinely to stop the destruction of Gaza and death of civilians permanently and not just for a few years then surely the pro Palestinian protesters should be the first calling for the removal of Hamas.

I genuinely feel that if the world had united behind Israel's goal to get rid of Hamas, particularly countries like Qatar and organisations like the UN, the war could have been over by now, and Gaza rebuilding.

Absolutely.

This is why this conflict, in particular, caught my interest and I started researching it.

That in addition to the global protests that started immediately after Oct 7th, not protesting against a terrorist organisation that had committed atrocities of the kind not seen in centuries and had kidnapped hundreds including babies and children and the elderly, but against the victims. Even ripping down their posters.

Shocking in the extreme.

Then the insistence on a ceasefire with no suggestion of what would happen afterwards, and that Israel must negotiate with, feed, water and supply energy and WiFi to these demons.

Hamas cheerleaders have definitely emboldened them to continue. It doesn’t take much in the way of logic to understand that. They lap up the propaganda like honey, despite much of it making absolutely no sense.

The really sinister thing is that I don’t think most of them even care about average Palestinians, they just hate the Jewish people and the Jewish State more than they hate evil demons who cut women’s breasts off while gang raping them, behead farming students with garden hoes, and parade dead bodies like they are trophies, which from a psychology point of view is horrific but also quite interesting.

I mean what have the Jewish people done to the world except contribute intellect, innovation, and technology, and the shaping of Western civilisation (which the majority of their haters greatly benefit from), despite centuries of persecution, expulsions and scapegoating?

ArtTheClown · 21/05/2025 15:09

This is what is so frustrating- if the goal is genuinely to stop the destruction of Gaza and death of civilians permanently and not just for a few years then surely the pro Palestinian protesters should be the first calling for the removal of Hamas.

I genuinely feel that if the world had united behind Israel's goal to get rid of Hamas, particularly countries like Qatar and organisations like the UN, the war could have been over by now, and Gaza rebuilding.

1dayatatime · 21/05/2025 14:52

@Mylegishangingoff

"I know what you were doing, you know what you were doing and it was far from intellectual."

Really- please do expand.

I am very clear on what my view which is a goal of establishing a long lasting peace for Gaza.

Mylegishangingoff · 21/05/2025 14:18

1dayatatime · 21/05/2025 12:46

@Mylegishangingoff

"Why?

I seem to have triggered you with my post talking about how Gaza was not a 'wasteland' as claimed before Israel purposefully turned it into one. It's all a bit strange tbh. I talk about how Gaza had multiple health care centres, multiple educational facilities, infrastructure and a really highly educated population and now suddenly I'm a Hamas supporter who has something to do with rallys?

Are you quite OK?

The strangest part is you aren't even trying to refute my point that Gaza was not a 'wasteland' with no educational or health facilities before Israel turned it into one. You are just going straight for you support terrorists."

Clearly Gaza is in a worse condition now than before October 7th - that's what happens in a war. I think that point is not disputable.

I hope you agree though that the objective is to permanently end the conflict and that the only way this can happen is for Hamas to be removed from power. If there is a ceasefire and Hamas stays in power then the conflict will simply reignite in a few years time.

I also hope that Hamas can be removed without further death and destruction to Gaza. This can be best achieved by western protesters supporting calls within Gaza for the removal of Hamas. Unfortunately and instead we have seen on the western Palestinian protests the very few who have protested against Hamas are then physically attacked.

To paraphrase Gary Lineker "those that are silent on the removal of Hamas are complicit in the destruction of Gaza."

Lastly I am perfectly fine thank you and thank you for asking and apologies for unsettling you with informed intellectual reasoning.

I think your post has nothing to do with mine tbh. The poster I initially replied to was under the impression that Gaza was a 'wasteland' devoid of anything but tunnels and bombs prior to Oct 7. All I did was correct her and you jump in rattling on about Hamas supporters. I know what you were doing, you know what you were doing and it was far from intellectual.

1dayatatime · 21/05/2025 13:44

@ArtTheClown

"So yes - Hamas has plenty of supporters here in the UK."

This is what is so frustrating- if the goal is genuinely to stop the destruction of Gaza and death of civilians permanently and not just for a few years then surely the pro Palestinian protesters should be the first calling for the removal of Hamas.

The notable absence of calls for the removal of Hamas therefore raises the question of what is the actual goal of the pro Palestinian protesters.

ArtTheClown · 21/05/2025 12:58

Peter Tatchell was arrested while marching with the pro-Palestine side. His sign said "Stop Israel genocide. Stop Hamas executions". This so enraged the organisers that they went to the police, claiming he'd said "Hamas are terrorists". For some reason the police then arrested him as that's apparently offensive despite it being a legal truth in the UK.

So yes - Hamas has plenty of supporters here in the UK.

https://x.com/PeterTatchell/status/1924491553868861945

https://x.com/PeterTatchell/status/1924491553868861945

1dayatatime · 21/05/2025 12:49

@Mylegishangingoff

"So why did you end you post with It is truly a perplexing and depressing state of affairs that there seems to be more support for Hamas from western protesters than there is from ordinary Gazans."

Because there is a worrying absence of any criticism of Hamas on the protest marches. Indeed the very few who have accurately and simply described Hamas as a terrorist organisation have been physically attacked for stating this.

This would indicate that the protesters, if not actively supportive of Hamas , are at the very least not critical of it.

1dayatatime · 21/05/2025 12:46

@Mylegishangingoff

"Why?

I seem to have triggered you with my post talking about how Gaza was not a 'wasteland' as claimed before Israel purposefully turned it into one. It's all a bit strange tbh. I talk about how Gaza had multiple health care centres, multiple educational facilities, infrastructure and a really highly educated population and now suddenly I'm a Hamas supporter who has something to do with rallys?

Are you quite OK?

The strangest part is you aren't even trying to refute my point that Gaza was not a 'wasteland' with no educational or health facilities before Israel turned it into one. You are just going straight for you support terrorists."

Clearly Gaza is in a worse condition now than before October 7th - that's what happens in a war. I think that point is not disputable.

I hope you agree though that the objective is to permanently end the conflict and that the only way this can happen is for Hamas to be removed from power. If there is a ceasefire and Hamas stays in power then the conflict will simply reignite in a few years time.

I also hope that Hamas can be removed without further death and destruction to Gaza. This can be best achieved by western protesters supporting calls within Gaza for the removal of Hamas. Unfortunately and instead we have seen on the western Palestinian protests the very few who have protested against Hamas are then physically attacked.

To paraphrase Gary Lineker "those that are silent on the removal of Hamas are complicit in the destruction of Gaza."

Lastly I am perfectly fine thank you and thank you for asking and apologies for unsettling you with informed intellectual reasoning.