330 reported killed so far in today's airstrikes

@Twiglets1 Please do not worry, or feel you must reply. I simply thought that article was interesting, and better informed than I could be.

A previous poster at 1300 said Israel has no right to exist in its current state. They went on to say that it should be just one state with equal rights for everyone.
I was just pointing out that this was indeed what the original zionists hoped for. One secular state. Israel is still a secular state. Palestinians who live in Israel have the same rights as Jews who live in Israel.
I was just pointing that out.
No more no less.
I dont support settlers in the West Bank.
I sometimes get upset at the hatred shown for Israel especially when it appears to me to come from an unwillingness to try to understand both sides.

I see the discussion has moved on @ScrollingLeaves but in response to your post tagging me this morning, I agree that Israel broke the ceasefire on this occasion and I definitely don't agree with them doing that. Obviously Hamas broke the uneasy peace back in October 2023 in quite horrific circumstances but this time it is Israel who are to blame.

My personal opinion is that Netanyahu will continue to take vengeance on Hamas for the October attack now he has such strong support from Trump - with or without the hostages being released. It would look better on Hamas if they did the decent thing and released the innocent hostages anyway, but I don't think they care about how things look to soft people in the west who value innocent human lives - both Palestinian & Israeli.

Neither does Netanyahu apparently and neither does Trump.

But let's not forget how many rights Jews and Christians currently have in Palestinian areas...

This was about Israel? Because it reads like you are complaining about the rights of Jewish Israelis in the West Bank or Gaza where they seemingly have the right to demolish 95% of it, prevent vital aid and kill over 400 people including almost 200 children in 1 day and still have people talking about how they should have more rights.

I wasn't talking about the West Bank or Gaza.
I was talking about the nation of Israel. Where approx 20% of citizens are Palestinian/ other Arabic origin.
I'm just pointing out to the previous poster that there is indeed a state where everyone has the same rights. Israel. She didn't seem to be aware.

Like the West Bank where Jewish Israelis are throwing Palestinians out of their homes, burning their villages and have Palestinians living under military law? What more rights would they like there do you think?

This is what Israel is. A secular state with equal rights for all Israelis. Be they Palestinian, other Arab origin, Jewish, Christian, gay, straight, whatever.
Or at least that's what it was always intended to be by its founders. I agree that current administration is seemingly moving away from that.
But let's not forget how many rights Jews and Christians currently have in Palestinian areas...

I missed that part. @justasecond , how do you determine who counts as an extremist and where do those who were born in Israel or fled there as refugees go back to?

Hmm remind me how that's worked in every other country in the middle east....

(particularly interested in the 'send them back where they came from' suggestion🙄)

So an entire state should be dismantled without the say if their population and Jewish people should be a tiny minority like they are everywhere else. What a great idea, what can possibly go wrong.

devour
I said it did not have a right to exist in its current state. There should be one state with equal rights for everyone, Jews, Muslims, Christians and atheists. The extremists who don’t like this should leave and go back to where they came from

The proposals made to the Palestinians were never put into writing, but told orally to Palestinian negotiators.[45] There are conflicting accounts as to what transpired.[4] The following table summarizes what was finally offered to Palestinians, according to various sources. Most sources agree, that under Israel's final proposal, the Temple Mount (including Al-Aqsa) would remain under Israeli sovereignty.[46] Israel would also take most of the rest of East Jerusalem,[47] while Palestinians would get some parts too. Israel would annex 8%[48] or 13.5%[46] of the West Bank, and would maintain a military of an additional 6–12% of the West Bank for an unspecified period of time[46] (sometimes called a "long term lease"[47]). According to some sources, Israel would also retain its settlement blocks in the Gaza Strip.[46] The Palestinian state would not be contiguous and the West Bank would be split into 2 or 3 sections.[46][48] Finally, Israel would control Palestinian airspace.[49]

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. It was hardly a fair deal yet Arafat was painted as the villain for refusing to bow down to the unreasonable demands. This is my last post on the matter on this thread as I can see it is likely a tactic to derail and deflect from the mass slaughter of the Palestinians that is taking place right now at the hands of Israel.

https://www.newsweek.com/clinton-arafat-its-all-your-fault-153779

If Israel shouldn't exist, what do you think should happen to it?

Ararat rejected the deal as it did not allow the Palestinians control over East Jerusalem which they have always said is the capital of Palestine. Ararat would also have had to sign away masjid Al Aqsa which was not his to sign away. It was a hardly a fair deal in more than one way.

Clinton is hardly a reliable and neutral witness! Anyone that heard his recent statement would know this

I cannot gaslight with respect to a term that means different things to different people. Perhaps you're gaslighting me.

Gaslighting is about making people question their reality, like telling someone the PLO weren't terrorists, if only I hadn't been alive to see the evidence of their terrorism before the days of tik tok and instagram. The whole picture is a wee bit more two-sided than 'Israel is a terrorist state' , but doesn't it make emotive posting.

Clinton is on record as saying how Arafat scuppered two state solutions that gave him what he asked for and more, but there was no profit in it for him. It would be lovely to think that Gaza could exist peacefully as a nation state alongside Israel, that's the dream, excuses for hamas make Gazan lives worse not better.

As Twiglet said, if Netanyahu is using hostages as an excuse then send them home, without the fanfare and kisses and goody bags 🙄. Support the peace movement in Israel and cut off Hamas income stream. But I suspect peaceful co-existence is not the agenda for many people...I may be being gaslit.

Exactly, yet the Israeli people voted these terrorists in

I believe in a fair two state solution. It just irks me that people are put down for not believing in their definition of zionism which opposes the official definition.

People (I do) can believe Israel has the right to exist and also think that their actions are the most disgusting murderous vile actions.

You can believe they have a right to exist but that they have crossed every border of human decency and their actions will blight them for generations to come.

Liv999 · Today 11:42
**
Netanyahu and his cronies are complete scum, terrorists in suits

They are. The level of disrespect to the families of the Israeli hostages is despicable.

Netanyahu and his cronies are complete scum, terrorists in suits

The official definition of zionism is to establish a Jewish homeland in Eretz Yisrael. Which Is the biblical term for Israel which includes Gaza and all the Palestinian territories. So please do not gaslight those of us who oppose this for obvious reasons.

@justasecond & @SassySusie
You are the first posters referencing antisemitism on this thread....until this post!