Egypt proposes $53bn Gaza rebuild as alternative to Trump plan

Ah, I misunderstood your point, sorry.

30% of the population isn't going.

Maybe surrender of weapons then, dismantling of Hamas structure.

Having said that, it would be a good start if anyone previously employed by Hamas was barred from office or any position of responsibility within the community, such as teaching, law, civil service etc. As happened in the de-natzification of Germany after WWII

Maybe alongside education - and time - that would be enough. Again, like German denazification.

Obviously in the meantime, complete demilitarisation would be necessary too.

I do genuinely hope the Arab states can make it happen.

The broader question really, is 'who are Hamas?' I'm not sure what 'The removal of Hamas' looks like in this context.

30% of Palestinians support Hamas. More than that supported October 7th and still support getting rid of Israel through violence.

In a war context, 'the removal of Hamas' is clearer: it's about removing organised military capability and leadership. That makes sense.

But in a governing context? In a security context? If the same person - with the same ideas and motives, but a different coloured rosette - is running the show, is Israel any safer?

Answers for the Arab states to find...

I've already said the plan sounds great but the problem is Hamas agreeing to leave. Who actually thinks they will go
They love power, they are evil, their leaders love money and hoard lots of it. Can anyone actually see them releasing hostages, putting down weapons and going. 🙄

That's just not the difficult bit. It's really not.

The difficult bit is getting from the point where Israel minimises attacks (attacks which no country could accept) through force and restrictions... to the point where the Palestinians (as an organised force, rather than the occasional individual) choose not to attack Israel even when they can. And where Israel can depend on that Palestinian choice sufficiently to stop their force and restrictions.

And that change can only come from the Palestinians.

(And no, the fairytale of 'just lift the restrictions' doesn't wash. Many previous wars - before the restrictions were in place - have shown that. And October 7th put an absolute stop to it ever being tried again).

I'm not saying that this is difficult to give Israel a free pass. I'm saying that it's difficult because it is. There have been 75 years of peace summits and negotiations - huge amounts of money and effort spent by the US and other countries - and peace is further away not closer.

If the Arab states think they can succeed, good luck to them. I just won't hold my breathe.

Why is it not also very confronting when extremist Israelis show a map where Palestine does not exist at all?

When the Likud part’s founding principle is that Israel is the whole land from the river to the sea?

or, when, as now, together with Trump, the non existence of Palestine is being planned by Netanyahu?

Why was it all right for Netanyahu to do everything he could to prevent the State of Palestine from being recognised, prevent it from existing?

What if there were one state with the river on one side and the sea on the other where both existed?

Or what if Palestine were a free, un-blockaded, un-illegally settled state both in Gaza, by the sea, and in The West Bank, by the river with the two linked?

The State of Israel currently exists between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea; it's confronting when the Pro-Palestinian crowd yell it because for Palestine to exist between the river and the sea, Israel would have to cease to exist.

Israel certainly has maps showing that!

Apparently this needs to be said again: Israeli Jews are the last people on Earth who can complain about Palestinian longing for the land from the river to the sea. The State of Israel is the mother of "river to the sea" – using graphic rather than geographic language. It is nearly impossible to find a map in any public space in Israel today, from official maps to public art and iconography, showing the Green Line that would delineate a hypothetical Palestinian state. Maps in Israel show the whole land, undivided – in effect, erasing Palestinian political and national identity.

….and,

As for inciting children about river to sea: This is the time to recall that Israeli public schools are practically barred from using maps showing the Green Line – no Palestine there either.

(Excerpt Haaretz Feb 13 2025
For Israelis, 'From the River to the Sea' Is a Reality. For Palestinians, It's a crime.)

Have you looked at a map lately? Israel already exists from the river to the sea.

What needs to be solved yes is the removal of Hamas but also a complete change of mindset in the Israeli government. They have a charter that Israel will exist from the river to the sea and have actively backed a man who has called for the expulsion and massacre of 2 million people.

I think it is very easy for pro Israel people to say there is no way forward for peace because that gives Israel its aim of taking over the entire Palestinian territory.

It's quite difficult to negotiate with an entity that wants to destroy you. Hamas want to see the end of what they now call 'the Zionist Project' which is to say the elimination of Israel.

There isn't really a middle ground is there?

I'm reading an interesting book that makes the argument that draws a line between the 1929 Hebron massacre and October 7th, 2023, arguing that the "pogrom in Hebron, part of a spate of anti-Jewish riots that August, inspired the extremism on both sides that continues to make the Israeli-Palestinian conflict so intractable."

I think any solution is unlikely, but like I said I'm willing to keep an open mind.

I can't see anything particularly different in the Arab plan (ie different from all the other previous peace plans) - and no concrete detail on any of the tricky stuff - but maybe their involvement (rather than the proposals coming from the West) will make a difference.

But naively pushing fairytales makes peace less likely, not more likely. Because it means that you ignore what actually needs to be solved. Which is Israel's security.

And when did Israelis choose the arch liar, trouble maker and criminal, Netanyahu, propped up by extremists?

So there is no point in any negotiations or ceasefire we just have to go straight to what??

Because the Gazans chose Hamas in 2005, and recent polls show that many of the ideas Hamas included in their charter - as well as their actions on October 7th - are still widely supported in Gaza. So it's reasonable to infer that they would vote Hamas in again now.

If Hamas are not there, Gazans will support another group with the same ideas.

The Palestinian hatred of the Jews was there before Hamas, before 1967, even before Israel existed.

Nothing would be different.

But why would another group spring up if Israel left Gaza completely and the Palestinians were allowed self governance?

If Hamas could be eliminated it would be amazing, but I don't see it happening. Even if all their leaders were imprisoned, they'd just be martyrs to the cause, and a new group would spring up. I should imagine there needs to be some kind of reconciliation process involving both Gaza and Israel.

And if they did agree to leave @ImmediateReaction would you think it is a good plan.

It's a great idea, but, and it's a big but how to get rid of Hamas? They won't just go. That much is obvious.

Oh god. It’s like there is a 10 year old spoilt child in charge. It makes me feel sick to my stomach with worry for the whole world reading his words.

Israel's GDP is $513 Billion.

The US gave Israel $12.5 billion in 2024 during the Gaza war. That's about 2.4% of Israel's GDP.

For comparison, 2.4% of the UK's GDP is £69 billion. That's about what we spent on Covid Furlough. Painful, but possible as a once-off

The more usual $3 billion which the US give Israel in an average year is 0.6% of Israel's GDP.

For comparison, 0.6% of the UK's GDP is £17 billion. That's about 8% of our NHS spending.

It's a significant amount of aid, and it would be painful to Israel to lose it, but it isn't make-or-break.

It's completely different to the $183 billion the US have given Ukraine in the last 3 years. Ukraine's GDP is about $179 billion. So that's 34% of Ukraine's GDP every year for 3 years. (Just from the US).

Yes, I don't know what game is being played.

He said this weeks ago and then did nothing when all the hostages weren't released by midday on the Saturday as he said they should be.