What does Zionism and/or anti-Zionism mean to you?

You said you think the Jewish homeland should be in Israel. Which sounds like Zionism.

I also said “Israel is now Israel. Whether or not it should be is now lost in 1948”

Personally, I think the 1948 land grab was wrong, a desperate scrabble to try to pacify an historic, proud and strong but forcibly nomadic nation that had been reprehensibly let down in its time of need by its various hosts, who cobbled together an ill thought out “plan”, without considering the future consequences.

Just to make it crystal clear to you, I think Netanyahu and his right wing nutters are a bunch of cunts. I also think that Hamas is a bunch of cunts.

I am most certainly not a Zionist. I’m a pragmatist. Clear enough for you,

I never said you're Jewish?

You said you think the Jewish homeland should be in Israel. Which sounds like Zionism.

BidoofBlue · Today 23:21

MrsSkylerWhite · Today 22:56
Israel, obviously.
The West Bank is not Israel.
Do you not feel that the indoctrination and hated works both ways?

You sound like a Zionist to me

What on earth are you talking about?

I’mnot Jewish?!

I suggest you read the exchange again.

My point was that some Israeli’s hate Palestinians as much as some Palestinians hate Israelis.

Israel is now Israel. Whether or not it should be is now lost in 1948.

Jewish settlers should absolutely not be illegally staking claim to the West Bank.

Is that clear enough for you? WTF is Zionist about that?

Wildflowers99 · Today 23:00

MrsSkylerWhite · Today 22:56
Israel, obviously.
The West Bank is not Israel.
Do you not feel that the indoctrination and hated works both ways?

Scratch my last comment as I didn’t see you had already replied, apologies.
**
So - you believe Palestine should self govern as an autonomous country, and that it’s actually possible for this to happen without being a security threat to the West and in particular Israel?

No worries.

Yes, I do. Throughout history, the things that have ended war and hatred were political stability under benign leaders leading to peace, raised standards of living, education and equal opportunity. I don’t believe that Hamas is representative of Palestinian people - particularly younger people - I believe like most human beings, they just want to live their lives in peace and raise happy, healthy safe children. I suspect most reject the beliefs and hatred that their elders perpetuate. I also suspect that they are terrified to put their heads above the parapet and express that rejection. I think we all know what the result of that would be.

I’m not a Jewish person. I think I have a slight inkling of the threat that Jewish families living in Israel feel, though (in fact, living anywhere atm). Again, history. Anyone who can’t understand that fear is pretty stupid, frankly. Jewish people have been outrageously vilified for thousands of years so I absolutely understand why they are always watchful.

The whole situation is horrible. Misery on both sides. I’m an atheist so I don’t have any answers. I can see both sides.

All I know is that this slaughter has to stop. Though the chances of that with the terrible leadership on both sides seem vanishingly slim.

I just cling to the hope that if the Good Friday Agreement was brokered, maybe just maybe the situation isn’t as hopeless as it seems.

I thought Zionism was beyond belief in a Jewish homeland and is more about actively increasing the Jewish population in Israel (large families etc) and increasing the territory of Israel (west bank settlements).

I don't think of anti-zionism as coherent. It could be people who are against Zionism because they don't believe in expansion (including Jewish people in Israel and outside) OR or can be people who are anti-semitic.

Both sides being territorial/political positions rather than ethnic or religious positions.

This could be completely wrong though and I am willing to learn.

You sound like a Zionist to me.

What about the parts of Jordan that were once Palestine? I wonder why they only want Israel....
I don't really wonder. We all know why. It's because it's got Jews there.

Scratch my last comment as I didn’t see you had already replied, apologies.

So - you believe Palestine should self govern as an autonomous country, and that it’s actually possible for this to happen without being a security threat to the West and in particular Israel?

Where do you propose they have their homeland then?

Israel, obviously.

The West Bank is not Israel.

Do you not feel that the indoctrination and hated works both ways?

Zionism to me means the expulsion of Palestinian people in lands that they legally occupy, such as the West Bank.

Of course Jewish people need a homeland. It should not illegally be stolen from other people, though.

What is your opinion of a two-state system?