Page 8 | Breaking News - Shiri Bibas has not been returned

AniBocha · 2025-02-20T23:38:50+00:00

[[https://news.sky.com/story/israel-says-it-has-not-received-hostages-remains-and-hamas-handed-over-unidentified-body-13313681 https://news.sky.com/story/israel-says-it-has-not-received-hostages-remains-and-hamas-handed-over-unidentified-body-13313681]] As if the anguish isn't enough!

EdithStourton · 21/02/2025 19:00

x-post with @ChardonnaysBeastlyCat

EdithStourton · 21/02/2025 18:59

15 months of decomposition would erase evidence of killing “with their bare hands” unless they were refrigerated?
Whoever posted that hasn't watched enough police procedurals. Broken hyoid bones are a bit of a giveaway.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/02/2025 18:58

LoremIpsumCici · 21/02/2025 18:49

Hamas informed Israel that the Bibas boys and their mother Shiri had been killed in an airstrike in November 2023. This was not believed at the time and one of the reasons the ceasefire failed then.

Now, we know from the state of the remains that the boys’ bodies have been dead at least since November 2023, so we know the time of death might not be a lie.

15 months of decomposition would erase evidence of killing “with their bare hands” unless they were refrigerated? I am not sure if there was the electricity to accomplish that over a very hot summer in 2024. I think it’s best to wait for a formally published forensic report to know specific probable causes of death.

The staging of the handover was so overtly propagandist it was infantile. Bibi as Count Dracula isn’t fooling anyone. At least each body had a coffin. I almost expected to see the same sort of plastic hospital body bags that IDF has used to deliver very decomposed disappeared people back to Gaza in.

No it won't.

Strangling cause the hyoid bone to fracture.

EdithStourton · 21/02/2025 18:57

YellowDaffodilRedTulip · 21/02/2025 17:07

I wonder if they even know whose body is whose?
The children would have been fairly obvious. But if she did die in an air strike it was probably along with several other women. And after a year it’s going to be hard to distinguish one body from another.

I can’t imagine Hamas did this on purpose, they have nothing to gain and a lot to lose.

<head explodes>
Hamas and their allies:
murdered, in cold blood, people at a music festival
murdered entire families in their homes, including mutilating family members in front of each other
paraded the body of a young woman around on the back of a truck (Shani Louk, if you've forgotten her)
boasted of killing Jews ('Mother! Mother! I have killed Jews with my own hands!')
carried people away as hostages, including children
held them as hostages, some for over 500 days (still holds some)
tortured and starved some of their hostages
allowed no contact between the hostages and their families, who didn't know if they were alive or dead
said hostages were dead when they were alive

And now, we have some people on this thread going, oh no, Hamas and their allies might NOT have murdered the Bibas children - we know the Jews IDF tell lies!
And you:
Oh, they might have mixed the bodies up my mistake....
Can you really think that is the most likely scenario, given the behaviour of Hamas et al of late?

Years ago, probably 40 years ago when I was a teenager and had hopes that the world would be a much better place in the future, I read a poem called 'The Murder of Bellet and Hannah'. It was written in what is now Germany in about 1200, by a (Jewish) man whose wife and daughters were slaughtered by rampaging Crusaders. It has stuck in my mind ever since. And 800-odd years after it was written, Jewish children are yet again being killed entirely because they are Jews, and as no doubt happened then, people are making excuses for the murderers.

Go figure.

NB I'm not Jewish. But I am sickened by that spectacle of coffins.

LoremIpsumCici · 21/02/2025 18:53

AniBocha · 21/02/2025 18:41

When the terrorists organisation that is the hamas health ministry indicate civilian deaths there are no such outcries by pro gazan supporters about the fact these are unverified.

The death tolls are heavily scrutinised by outside experts though. Last year a lancet study estimated that the deaths are likely undercounted by a factor of 4
https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3.pdf

hihelenhi · 21/02/2025 18:53

AniBocha · 21/02/2025 18:41

When the terrorists organisation that is the hamas health ministry indicate civilian deaths there are no such outcries by pro gazan supporters about the fact these are unverified.

Quite. Funny that, isn't it?

But apparently, people just can't see it. Dissonance at its finest.

hihelenhi · 21/02/2025 18:51

Peripop · 21/02/2025 18:19

The findings could be fabricated, they could freely distribute them but how can they be verified? 🤷‍♀️

Show quote history

I find the absolute desperation to believe that Israel & the IDF must be lying (because all Jews lie and can't be trusted, right?) but Hamas somehow can't be even when they've paraded the coffins of those murdered children in front of cheering crowds and blatant anti Semitic propagandist imagery very telling.

A bit like people's refusal to believe that the gleeful bodycam footage taken of the massacres, torture, rapes, brutal murders of Oct 7 (of teenagers at a peace festival, of elderly people at bus stops, of known peace activists and their families in certainly not known to be remotely-right-wing or Netanyahu supporting kibbutzes) could possibly be true of their fondly imagined oppressed Gazan citizens. It's blatant anti-semitism, through and through. They were killed because they were Jews and it happened to be easy BECAUSE many were helping Palestinians and naively thought this was the right thing to do. Apparently not. And there were people in London smiling, cheering and celebrating this massacre as "resistance" while claiming to be "left wing" and somehow on the right side of history. Oh, and Israel's existence and its location doesn't exist in a vacuum either. (And historically included violent displacement from their own land by whom?)

LoremIpsumCici · 21/02/2025 18:49

Hamas informed Israel that the Bibas boys and their mother Shiri had been killed in an airstrike in November 2023. This was not believed at the time and one of the reasons the ceasefire failed then.

Now, we know from the state of the remains that the boys’ bodies have been dead at least since November 2023, so we know the time of death might not be a lie.

15 months of decomposition would erase evidence of killing “with their bare hands” unless they were refrigerated? I am not sure if there was the electricity to accomplish that over a very hot summer in 2024. I think it’s best to wait for a formally published forensic report to know specific probable causes of death.

The staging of the handover was so overtly propagandist it was infantile. Bibi as Count Dracula isn’t fooling anyone. At least each body had a coffin. I almost expected to see the same sort of plastic hospital body bags that IDF has used to deliver very decomposed disappeared people back to Gaza in.

MyCatHatesSandals · 21/02/2025 18:48

Liv999 · 21/02/2025 12:59

That's not the question I asked though

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You weren't really asking a question; you were making an implicit statement.

Original poster

AniBocha · 21/02/2025 18:41

When the terrorists organisation that is the hamas health ministry indicate civilian deaths there are no such outcries by pro gazan supporters about the fact these are unverified.

OP posts:

DoubleShotEspresso · 21/02/2025 18:41

EllaDisenchanted · 21/02/2025 14:23

@EmilyDickinson Unknown about Shiri, but IDF spokesperson just released following information:

*TRIGGER WARNING ‼️ *

We can confirm that baby Kfir Bibas, just 10 months old, and his older brother Ariel, aged four, were both brutally murdered by terrorists while being held hostage in Gaza no later than November 2023. These two innocent children were taken hostage alive, along with their mother, Shiri, from their home on October 7, 2023,” IDF Spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari says
“Contrary to Hamas’s lies, Ariel and Kfir were not killed in an airstrike. Ariel and Kfir Bibas were murdered in cold blood by terrorists,” he says. “The terrorists did not shoot the two young boys — they killed them with their bare hands. Afterwards, they committed horrific acts to cover up these atrocities. This assessment is based on forensic findings and intelligence that supports these conclusions. We have shared this intelligence and the forensic findings with our partners around the world so they can verify it.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-february-21-2025/#liveblog-entry-3487987

Edited

This is wickedness. Sickening. What evil bastards this sick, brainwashed people must be.
I just cannot comprehend

Peripop · 21/02/2025 18:33

OpheliaWasntMad · 21/02/2025 18:31

You hope …🙄

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Not at all. What i hope is that there is a swift peaceful end to all of it.

OpheliaWasntMad · 21/02/2025 18:31

Peripop · 21/02/2025 18:19

The findings could be fabricated, they could freely distribute them but how can they be verified? 🤷‍♀️

Show quote history

You hope …🙄

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 21/02/2025 18:27

Peripop · 21/02/2025 18:19

The findings could be fabricated, they could freely distribute them but how can they be verified? 🤷‍♀️

Show quote history

The same way expert findings are confirmed.

Photos, camera footage, test results, reports.

It’s not that hard.

Peripop · 21/02/2025 18:19

ArtTheClown · 21/02/2025 17:57

It could not be truthful, other people can look at the claims but unless an independent party provides the report we cant know its the truth.

Of course it's truthful, they'd hardly be making the findings widely available if they'd lied.
You just can't accept it because the dissonence jars too harshly with your viewpoint.

The findings could be fabricated, they could freely distribute them but how can they be verified? 🤷‍♀️

ArtTheClown · 21/02/2025 17:57

It could not be truthful, other people can look at the claims but unless an independent party provides the report we cant know its the truth.

Of course it's truthful, they'd hardly be making the findings widely available if they'd lied.
You just can't accept it because the dissonence jars too harshly with your viewpoint.

ArtTheClown · 21/02/2025 17:55

I can’t imagine Hamas did this on purpose, they have nothing to gain and a lot to lose.

They have some macabre, satanic-looking ceremony to hand over black coffins, with the victim's images in front of Netanhayu as a vampire, loud Arabic pop music and an audience of thousands cheering, and you think they'd worry about the optics if the wrong body?

No, this was done to cause more pain. They long identified the Bibas family as a psychological tender point for the Israeli nation, and they're getting as much mileage as they possibly can from maximum cruelty.

And if the reaction is that the ceasefire fails, that's not a loss for Hamas. That's more footage to put on social media. They don't care about civilian deaths, the more the merrier as far as they're concerned, great for propaganda purposes.

Peripop · 21/02/2025 17:54

ArtTheClown · 21/02/2025 17:38

Very much in one side's interest to claim the other side murders babies with bare hands, very much in the other's to claim they can't identify bodies due to the bombs of the other, not sure why that is hard to understand? 🤷‍♀️ either way the innocents on both sides suffer :(

Do you understand that an autopsy has been carried out, and the details will be shared with agencies internationally? There's no "claims", there's no "both sides". Israel have evidence and are sharing it.
Could you explain why you're trying to pretend there's any doubt to this?

https://x.com/felixsater/status/1892990663936934104

Edited

It could not be truthful, other people can look at the claims but unless an independent party provides the report we cant know its the truth.

SharonEllis · 21/02/2025 17:51

YellowDaffodilRedTulip · 21/02/2025 17:07

I wonder if they even know whose body is whose?
The children would have been fairly obvious. But if she did die in an air strike it was probably along with several other women. And after a year it’s going to be hard to distinguish one body from another.

I can’t imagine Hamas did this on purpose, they have nothing to gain and a lot to lose.

Have you only just become aware of Hamas and the way they operate? Part of their MO is psychological torture of the Israeli population. As you must surely have noticed. The people 'both siding' on this board show that they have nothing to lose.

Sinuhe · 21/02/2025 17:39

AniBocha · 21/02/2025 17:15

Yes. People trying at all times to 'understand' these vile terrorists. They don't even care about their own population!
They put in no safety to protect them against the retaliation they knew would come after October 7th.
Yet people are so eager to 'understand'.
I'm fed up of it.

Open your hearts apologists! See how evil hamas are and STOP trying to justify their abhorrent acts.

Show quote history

It's not as simple as See how evil hamas are and STOP trying to justify their abhorrent acts
There is decades of war and injustices on BOTH sides that we are dealing with.

And jet neither the Israeli population nor the Palestinians have a say in this.

On a small scale what happened to thouse babies and their mother is atrocious, not returning the body is simply disgusting...
But in the grand scheme of things it's a different matter. They are just a tool to a means to an end.

ArtTheClown · 21/02/2025 17:38

Very much in one side's interest to claim the other side murders babies with bare hands, very much in the other's to claim they can't identify bodies due to the bombs of the other, not sure why that is hard to understand? 🤷‍♀️ either way the innocents on both sides suffer :(

Do you understand that an autopsy has been carried out, and the details will be shared with agencies internationally? There's no "claims", there's no "both sides". Israel have evidence and are sharing it.
Could you explain why you're trying to pretend there's any doubt to this?

https://x.com/felixsater/status/1892990663936934104

Peripop · 21/02/2025 17:26

Very much in one side's interest to claim the other side murders babies with bare hands, very much in the other's to claim they can't identify bodies due to the bombs of the other, not sure why that is hard to understand? 🤷‍♀️ either way the innocents on both sides suffer :(

Sinkintotheswamp · 21/02/2025 17:25

headstone · 21/02/2025 16:18

Unfortunately Hamas lie and so do the IDF.

All the violent men involved lie. Atrocities and violence shouldn't be ascribed to a particular faith or culture. Just men.
Remember we had the IRA over here.

The whole thing is heartbreaking.

OpheliaWasntMad · 21/02/2025 17:25

littleburn · 21/02/2025 17:14

Oh what sanctimonious rubbish! Don't you dare 'both sides' this. Only one side is responsible for those babies and their mother being in Gaza.

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Exactly

ArtTheClown · 21/02/2025 17:23

It was bad enough that the little boys were killed in an air strike but to hear they were murdered in cold blood - what sort of person can look at a baby and murder him.

And they then tried to cover their tracks by attempting to make it look like a different cause of death.