American proposal to clear out Gaza

What if 50k people don’t want to leave their country permanently?

@statsfun you've then taken the brightest and best young people who could be rebuilding things at home. And not everyone will be able to migrate - what happens when people aspire to things they can't have? How about creating opportunities so that young people can train as mechanics and nurses in Gaza to both give themselves a livelihood and support their own communities.

Mass movement into refugee camps is definitely a recipe for disaster.

How about a small, well-supported youth migration scheme. Up to 50,000 young people (2% of the population) a year sponsored into a fully supported relocation into one of 5 friendly countries (10k for each country, which is surely manageable) with 3 years living expenses, vocational training organised, and citizenship of that country at the end of the 3 years.

Their side of the agreement would be giving up right of return (in return for the new citizenship). There has to be closure, or this will never end. And probably not allowed to return to visit at all for 5-10 years (to stop it being co-opted by Hamas). So there would be personal cost, but still an incredible opportunity. Plenty of people risk their lives in small boats for much less.

Old people are stuck to old ways, but young people everywhere are ambitious for their own future.

In 10 years time, everyone will know of an older sibling with a good job and life. What do you think that generation of 12 year olds will aspire to then? Being a Hamas martyr (their only option currently)? Or being a motorcycle mechanic in Turkey/a nurse in Cairo?

That's the kind of deal the Palestinians could negotiate right now. If anyone had their actual interests at heart. And in a generation, Gaza would be de-radicalised.

It wouldn't be peace. You would just spread hamas to other places where they can gather supporters from the country and surrounding ones, causing more havoc but spread out

So who's paying for this then.....rebuilding Gaza? The cash rich (?) Egyptians and Jorndainians are to find 50 billion from somewhere?

I think the idea of rebuilding Gaza may flounder when Arab nationalism at the cost. They also don't want to rearm a genocide Islamist group that could lead to a return to war. Rhetoric form the Arab regions with no mention of the cash.

Over the coming weeks as may see negotiation about the future of Gaza with the ideal being the removal of Hamas. If the Palestinains do continue to support Hamas in large numbers then they are still a threat to Israel and we are stuck in this spoon loop of strike and counter strike against Israel....to displace the Palestinoans would then seem to be the only viable peace option.

That's good then, an alternative plan. Hopefully, that involves no Hamas and no constant attacks or planning terrorist incursions into Israel.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2jz020ny0o

Its all very well to finish with a trite suggestion that everyone needs to come together but You can't just rewrite history like this and then expect both sides to come together without any understanding of what has gone before. Its nonsense. See @dairydebris post, but many others have addressed this sort of stuff over and over again. Just on the most recent history Israel withdrew from gaza. It was the Palestinians that failed to capitalise on that and chose to launch a genocidal declaration of war on Israel.

This.

This is painful to read.

Isn't it the case, that when the lines were drawn back in 1948, that Israel accepted this, declared the nation of Israel and went about building a prosperous state for its people.

What did the Palestinian Arabs do? They didn't declare a state. They didn't start building. They said, 'We do not accept the nation of Israel and we will fight to remove them from our land.'

I haven't mentioned the violence as there was violence on both sides, so for brevity's sake.

You've got it precisely the wrong way around. The Palestinian Arabs can't accept any state of Israel at all. They cant even say it's name. They call it the 'Zionist Entity'. There's a separate thread on here with a survey, from The Guardian, showing over half of Palestinians don't think Israel should exist.

I know you'll come back to me with mention of the Nakba. Yes, some Arabs were driven from their village with violence. Some left as they had been asked to to make way for Arab armies to kill all the Isrealis. Some Arabs stayed, and are now citizens in Isreal.

Atrocities have been commited on both sides. But how you could have read the history of the region and come up with Israel as the main aggressors is beyond me.

Or maybe, just maybe, Israel just wants people to stop trying to annihilate it.

Maybe, just maybe, Israel never wanted the Palestinians to remain in Palestine in the first place and have spent a century trying to force them out.

Jordan gave citizenship to Palestinians who moved to Jordan.

In return, the PLO tried to overthrow Jordan's monarchy and take over Jordan for themselves.

Just like Israelis did when they were refugees, settled (by us) in Mandatory Palestine? Spent a few years not getting on with the Palestinians, started a Civil war then declared independence as Israel?

They are the world's most militarily and politically protected nation.

I'm all for peace in the region, but can we please stop seeing Israel as peaceful victims in all this.

Both sides need to come together and find a solution that allows Palestine to flourish, which will sort out a whole load of the political issues and should mean more security for Israel.

So what you’re suggesting is ethnic cleansing so there is peace?

Exactly how we set up Israel in the first place. Now they want to finish the job.

Hideous!

Definitely, Trump lied to his own base, he didn't even last 20 days.

Not all of them are bad though, some of the loudest Pro Palestinian accounts advocating daily for justice are veterans. They've come to realise that a lot of their misadventures and sacrifices I'm the region were not for America's benefit e.g. when Netanyahu addressed Congress in 2002 and said if we just get rid of Saddam Hussein the region will be safe.

A pretty good summary.of why Trump's ideas are rubbish.

Amr Hamzawy: Displacement plans in Gaza and annexation plans in the West Bank will only create more violence, instability, and human suffering in the Middle East. Just as these plans threaten Palestinian, Egyptian, and Arab interests, they will not guarantee Israel’s security in the medium or long term. They also threaten U.S. alliances and friendships with Arab countries. While the United States continues to be the most powerful actor in the region, protecting American interests requires good relations with its partners, particularly Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. The U.S. bias toward the criminal plans of the Israeli far right is undermining exactly this.

But are they actually feeling that way? Trump announced his Gaza plan last week. There was a poll the other day showing him with the highest approval ratings he's ever had and people saying it's because he's strong and keeping his promises
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-approval-rating-poll-doge-b2695056.html
I mean, 😵‍💫😵‍💫? He's just announced he wants to send Americans into a conflict zone, the exact opposite of his pre election 'stay out of it' mantra, and voters love it. I don't understand and frankly I'm disturbed and depressed by it.

Many of them voted the idea of USA not getting involved in wars and ending them and are finding their taxes spent. (& quite likely their army getting involved) on a war. I feel no sorry for MAGAs but can understand why they’ll be pissed off of not getting what they voted for

I can't possibly post some of them, as they're kind of inappropriate, but MAGA sorts are so pissed off they're making memes making fun of Trump bowing down to Netanyahu. They consider it weak. He'll be hating that due to his, very very large ego. The Gaza Plan is definitely not polling well.

By communication I meant media, or people who can report on what's happening.

Where have I been? I've been following the genocide for the entire time. I'm amazed you can seemingly watch the same thing and think it's perfectly normal war stuff.

I don't understand why you think moving the population geographically will automatically remove Hamas? Remaining Hamas will move with the population and continue to intimidate the population and destabilise the region and host country. And a proportion of the traumatised and dispossessed population will be receptive to their cause. And they'll be in camps reliant on humanitarian aid - there's no way that they can integrate those numbers into countries that already have overstretched services, unemployment and economic hardship. Trump's talk of a "beautiful place" is just like telling children their dog has gone to "live on a farm".

it’s wonderful news about the 2000 sick children. That would be a challenge for any countries healthcare system to take on even if they get aid - they need the beds, equipment and staff.

The King went down the “flattery route” with Trump. "I truly believe that with all of the challenges that we have in the Middle East, I finally see someone who can take us across the finish line to bring stability, peace and prosperity to all of us in the region."

@mids2019 and where is this magical land where they will be living out their dreams?

There are still ongoing discussions and there is I think a reality expressed by Trump though not particularly articulately. If the Gazans don't move with current political status quo there is a risk of similar conflict (it might start on Saturday) with death, horror and destruction.

Palestinians may not live in Gaza but they may live in a land with a promise of peace and dome hope for their children Also importantly without Hamas.

2000 Ill children will go to Jordan for treatment as part of their agreement. This is completely different to what trump has been suggesting of fully displacing citizens

The King of Jordan says he wants to talk about all the options. You don't get joint press conferences between state leaders unless there is at least some joint ground.

I wonder what Jordan has been promised?

Maybe people need to be talking about Trump seriously without resort to outright rejection?

Tg

Three in four Americans oppose idea of US taking control of Gaza, poll says
A new poll found that three out of four Americans say they oppose the idea of the US taking control of Gaza and displacing the Palestinians who live there.
A new Reuters/Ipsos poll conducted February 7-9 states that 74% of Americans surveyed said they opposed the idea of the US taking control of Gaza and displacing the Palestinians who live there.
The poll showed that Republicans were divided on the issue, with 55% opposed and 43% supportive.