American proposal to clear out Gaza

More than 500 Jewish Australian have signed a similar ad against ethnic cleansing

https://x.com/Sarah_Schwartz/status/1894175405927706952

It would be most likely an unlawful deportation of population and unlawful transfer of population.
As is on Putin's arrest warrant for crimes in parts of Ukraine.

I think the ethnic cleansing not being a crime is because many of the factors are covered under genocide so it could muddy waters?
And yes, not always a war crime. For example ongoing non war genocide - ethnic cleansing is in China and I believe still parts of India.

Ethnic cleansing actually is technically not a war crime or any crime. It’s not really a legal term.

The forced deportation of gazan’s as Trump is talking about would unquestionably be against international law. Deportation in this instance is a war crime and a crime against humanity. Like it is quite clear cut. It has nothing to do with deserts or digging graves. You just can’t legally deport a population like this.

Just because you don't understand what a particular war crime is, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Same as every single genocide discussion on these boards.

Depressingly, that sounds like a plausible scenario.

@gloriagloria Yup, he threw it on the table and caused a big ruckus, however it's wholly unrealistic. He has to work with his Military apparatus in the US and they know the reality of how this would actually play out in the region. The US Military has traditionally questioned whether Israel is a strategic asset or liability.

Currently there are clashes taking place on the Syrian Lebanese border between HTS and villagers that they've tried to invade in Lebanon. Iran has also just signed a security agreement with Russia. The GCC states have billions in American investments etc. Much of the "quiet" is due to ceasefire.

At least there's less of "thoughts and prayers" to the Palestinians and Egypt has the makings of a concrete plan to rebuild Gaza without moving the Palestinians.

@BelleHathor I also personally think Trump has no intention of taking over Gaza. My guess (and it is just that) is he will drop the idea ostensibly due to lack of support from Arab countries and then withdraw any US support from Gaza or peace negotiations because his plan wasn’t accepted while continuing to support Israel. When violence inevitably breaks out any killing of Gaza civilians will be blamed on the Arab states who failed to support Gazans being “removed from harms way” and giving Israel carte blanche to deal with Gaza as they wish.

He will never own Gaza, because that can't be done without American boots on the ground and the Palestinians won't leave "voluntarily" or not, especially after what they've endured and sacrificed over the last 15 months.

Trump is definitely giving his donor Miriam Adelson her moneys worth.

Ironically, he has finally pushed certain so called Pro Palestinian countries in the region to finally lay their cards on the table and form a coalition to resist this.

It's scary, but Trump is in a race against time, he has approximately 12 months before he has to start campaigning for the midterms. The more his base learns about this the more turn against him.

Trump has removed any penalisation to settlers and also put people within his government that support settlements and that Jerusalem belongs to Jews only for biblical rights. Once he “own” Gaza as he’s suggested then he’ll try and own West Bank as well

There are plenty of Israelis in USA and so some movement hopefully voluntarily is not without precedent. I just think you have to look at all solutions.

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does that look good to you as well or are you ok with “voluntary” displacement when it is Palestinians the ones that have to abandon their country ?

ps. I’m against ethnic cleansing. No person should be forced to abandon their country for the benefit of another one , not even for trumps benefit

Maybe just maybe, it's because over 80% of the population of Gaza is made up of people that were ethnically cleansed from other parts of Historic Palestine. If like Trump is suggesting ethnic cleansing is alright in 2025 why can't Palestinians return to their homes (most that were never legally purchased) as per UN resolution 194?

What Trump has put on the table now, means that the excuse that it would be impossible to remove the 700'000 illegal Israeli settlers is no longer an issue.

@mids2019 you still haven’t answered why you think forced deportations would destroy, rather than relocate Hamas?

We see backdrops from Hamas releasing hostages of no migration but to Jerusalem. Hamas as an ideology wish to ethnically cleanse Israel of Jews.

This will not change.

Trump had a suggestion that maybe a solution to an interminable conflict and there are a some that wish it to be interminable. Without a solution you are looking at generation after generation of Palestinians and Israel bearing the scars of continual conflcit.

There are plenty of Palsstinians in Jordan and so some movement hopefully voluntarily is not without precedent. I just think you have to look at all solutions.

@statsfun What you are doing is providing some (horrific) examples ethnic cleansing - not defining it. Trump’s half-baked plans to forcibly remove Gazan’s and not allow them back very much falls into the legal definition of ethnic cleansing. Personally I don’t think it will happen but the fact that a world leader feels comfortable proclaiming these ideas suggests a low priority for Gaza’s future and at the moment it is the only suggested plan on the table. You are minimizing the impact of these horrific statements which will strengthen the hand of Israeli extremists and potentially withdraw hope of a peaceful future in their homeland for Gazans, which is only likely to increase support for Hamas.

Even if there isn't the mass movement of Palestnians you now have ethic cleansing in the narrative and I expect we will have Hamas apologists wanting to refer to events after 1946 all as 'ethnic cleansing' now we have this term out there. The Palestinians will try and garner support for wider aims by saying some western governments are against 'ethnic cleansing ' now so can't they retrospectively condemn Israel......

Statsfun

I agree with your inconvenient truth, one that isn't widely explored or emphasised in the media. Every interview I see with a Palestinian invariably has the statement 'I am not Hamas' which can't be true for everyone. No Palestinian tells of dead Hamas fighters (probably 10K+) when talking of victims of military strikes either.

By denying Hamas popular support and it's actions and ideology you are preventing an important part of the debate about how land should be governed and populated .

Ethnic cleansing is a horrific crime. It usually involves marching entire populations into a desert, getting them to dig their own graves, and shooting them. That happened to the Yazidis. It happened to the Armenians during the creation of Turkey.

You minimise those crimes when you appropriate the word for some hysterically imagined future, based on Trump saying he'd like to own Gaza.

I'm quite sure that whatever happens in Gaza, some people will keep shouting 'ethnic cleansing', and will find some way to twist the definition to include it. It's wrong, and you shouldn't.

Hopefully you’re right and it doesn’t happen.

I'm sure when no ethnic cleansing - or anything even remotely similar - happens, you'll change your opinion.

I'll wait.

One poll is to see how many support a terrorist act
the other poll is to see how many support the idea of ethnic cleansing

There is no equivalence between polling to see how many of a population like the idea of their neighbours going away versus polling to see how many of a population supports a terrorist atrocity of horrific magnitude, which has actually been perpetrated and filmed.

Actual ethnic cleansing - like actually happened to the Yazidi in Iraq and Syria? Yes. Absolutely.

And I'm sure you did.

Outrage at some imagined, possible future crime? No.

In all seriousness, I think there is some extremism and radicalization within Israeli society too. The settlers have always been extreme, and I get the impression that attitudes have hardened generally. And that is a problem.

But hatred and intransigence don't seem to be quite as wide spread.

Trump has been pretty clear about his ethnic cleansing plans. Everyone should be protesting against ethnic cleansing not just the liberal elite if we want to abide by international law

Do they even know what they're objecting to, given that Trump hasn't said?

Or is it just the Liberal elite inventing some imagined possible future to be outraged at?

Unlike the October 7th atrocities, which were actually done. And filmed.