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Conflict in the Middle East

What would the 'support for Israel' equivalent of wearing a Keffiyeh be?

85 replies

Oodiks · 21/01/2025 19:35

Although the Keffiyeh is a traditional Bedouin headdress it now largely indicates support for Palestine. I've noticed women wearing them in Zoom meetings and would like to find a way to reciprocate with my own clothing statement.

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Oodiks · 28/01/2025 16:44

Dulra · 22/01/2025 19:50

but I don't think it's appropriate in a work setting and would like to have some way to respond in kind.

I agree but why respond in kind why not just address in with HR?

I've been thinking about this. I suspect that wearing a Keffiyeh would come under 'free speech' which is very much protected in the US, as would displaying rainbow flags or other expressions of solidarity that I find challenging. Doubly so because I work in a university and we're all about freedom of expression here.

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SharonEllis · 27/01/2025 22:24

Oodiks · 27/01/2025 22:17

I think you're right about a Star of David necklace and I'd feel uncomfortable about wearing one as I'm not Jewish. The cross gets worn out of context though, my very irreligious daughter wears several, just because she thinks they are 'cool'.

Yes that's very true.

Oodiks · 27/01/2025 22:17

SharonEllis · 23/01/2025 20:16

It wouldn't necessarily show an 'opinion on Israel'. Obviously you can't read someone's mind & shouldn't make assumptions, but there is no doubt that the star of david for many Jewish people represents a deep connection to Israel - that connection is not 'an opinion'. If you saw someone wearing a cross I doubt very much that you would frame it as an 'opinion' on christianity, but as a spiritual connection and manifestation of belief.

I think you're right about a Star of David necklace and I'd feel uncomfortable about wearing one as I'm not Jewish. The cross gets worn out of context though, my very irreligious daughter wears several, just because she thinks they are 'cool'.

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SharonEllis · 27/01/2025 20:40

Sixpence39 · 27/01/2025 20:20

What do you think many native Americans/Canadians and indigenous Australians say about the "right" those countries have to exist? When you've been displaced, subjugated, imprisoned, tortured etc so that a country can be created you tend to feel pretty differently about its "right" to exist. Did their societies not have a right to exist, too, before they were colonised? Exactly the same has happened to the Palestinians since Israel was created in 1948 and just like other indigenous people they are expected to lie down and take it without a fuss.

Edited

How many blatantly ahistorical points could you squeeze into one post, quite impressive. No the story of the creation of modern Israel is not exactly the same as the creation of the United States of America. The Jewish people come from the region - I assume you have heard of the Bible, even if you are not familiar with the secular history of the region?

Sixpence39 · 27/01/2025 20:20

Kneidlach · 23/01/2025 11:01

In my opinion ‘anti-Zionism’ is anti-Semitic. I can’t really see how denying a people the right to self-determination could be anything other than racism.

This is the heart of the issue for me. We don’t even have words in the English language for someone who is anti the existence of Russia, the USA, Australia or wherever. Because we don’t need these words, as no one seriously believes these countries shouldn’t exist - people manage to disagree with aspects of their politics, the wars they are involved in, etc, without calling for the country to not exist.

It seems that Israel is the only country where it’s acceptable or legitimate to call for it’s destruction. I wonder what distinguishes Israel from everywhere else…

What do you think many native Americans/Canadians and indigenous Australians say about the "right" those countries have to exist? When you've been displaced, subjugated, imprisoned, tortured etc so that a country can be created you tend to feel pretty differently about its "right" to exist. Did their societies not have a right to exist, too, before they were colonised? Exactly the same has happened to the Palestinians since Israel was created in 1948 and just like other indigenous people they are expected to lie down and take it without a fuss.

SharonEllis · 23/01/2025 20:16

Kendodd · 23/01/2025 20:00

If I saw somebody wearing a Star of David necklace I'd just assume they were Jewish, Jewish or just fashion. I wouldn't think it showed any opinion on Israel.
Yellow ribbon, I'd think was for the hostages.

It wouldn't necessarily show an 'opinion on Israel'. Obviously you can't read someone's mind & shouldn't make assumptions, but there is no doubt that the star of david for many Jewish people represents a deep connection to Israel - that connection is not 'an opinion'. If you saw someone wearing a cross I doubt very much that you would frame it as an 'opinion' on christianity, but as a spiritual connection and manifestation of belief.

Kendodd · 23/01/2025 20:00

SharonEllis · 22/01/2025 21:36

Not true. Its both. The historical & spiritual connection to Israel is important to the identity of most Jews even if they may or may not support the current government. Most Jews in this country identify as zionists, supporting the state of Israel, regardless of their views on the government.

If I saw somebody wearing a Star of David necklace I'd just assume they were Jewish, Jewish or just fashion. I wouldn't think it showed any opinion on Israel.
Yellow ribbon, I'd think was for the hostages.

stomachamelon · 23/01/2025 15:59
Hmm
PurpleChrayn · 23/01/2025 14:09

I wear a yellow ribbon, a Star of David and a "chai" charm.

EllaDisenchanted · 23/01/2025 14:07

GirlWearsRed · 23/01/2025 12:22

The poster I replied to, which was not you, indicated she did not know the Keffiyeh was an antisemetic symbol and offensive to Jews until she read posts indicating such on MN.

Which yes, include yours, as you are inferring the keffiyah is an offensive symbol which must be countered by your "token" symbol of support for Israel.

I am Jewish, I support Palestine, as do many, many, more of my reyacha. The Kefffiyah is not an antisemitic symbol, or an indicator of antisemitism in a person. For anyone to insinuate such is disingenuous and quite frankly I take offence that someone not even part of the religion somehow feels they can speak for all Jews.

"veahavta l'reyacha kamocha" as they say.

Enjoy using my religion as your opportunity to virtue signal. I won't be adding anymore to this quite frankly ridiculous conversation if you can call it that.

I wouldn’t say the keffiyeh is antisemitic or offensive, but as some antisemitic people have committed pretty violent and aggressive acts while hiding behind a keffiyeh over the last 15 months, as a Jewish person I would likely be wary when meeting someone wearing one. I don’t think it should be labeled as antisemitic or offensive, but personally my instinctive reaction would likely be to hide my Jewish identity if I met someone wearing one.

But what on earth do you mean by “my reyacha”? That literally doesn’t make sense and isn’t something Jewish (or Israeli) people say.

Whatsinanamehey · 23/01/2025 12:57

The Kefffiyah is not an antisemitic symbol, or an indicator of antisemitism in a person.

Thank you for this.

GirlWearsRed · 23/01/2025 12:22

Oodiks · 22/01/2025 20:38

Excuse me? I’m just asking what a person would wear to indicate support for Israel. I haven’t brought up antisemitism in this thread.

The poster I replied to, which was not you, indicated she did not know the Keffiyeh was an antisemetic symbol and offensive to Jews until she read posts indicating such on MN.

Which yes, include yours, as you are inferring the keffiyah is an offensive symbol which must be countered by your "token" symbol of support for Israel.

I am Jewish, I support Palestine, as do many, many, more of my reyacha. The Kefffiyah is not an antisemitic symbol, or an indicator of antisemitism in a person. For anyone to insinuate such is disingenuous and quite frankly I take offence that someone not even part of the religion somehow feels they can speak for all Jews.

"veahavta l'reyacha kamocha" as they say.

Enjoy using my religion as your opportunity to virtue signal. I won't be adding anymore to this quite frankly ridiculous conversation if you can call it that.

SharonEllis · 23/01/2025 11:09

@Kneidlach perfectly put.

Kneidlach · 23/01/2025 11:01

In my opinion ‘anti-Zionism’ is anti-Semitic. I can’t really see how denying a people the right to self-determination could be anything other than racism.

This is the heart of the issue for me. We don’t even have words in the English language for someone who is anti the existence of Russia, the USA, Australia or wherever. Because we don’t need these words, as no one seriously believes these countries shouldn’t exist - people manage to disagree with aspects of their politics, the wars they are involved in, etc, without calling for the country to not exist.

It seems that Israel is the only country where it’s acceptable or legitimate to call for it’s destruction. I wonder what distinguishes Israel from everywhere else…

SharonEllis · 23/01/2025 10:42

SpunkyCritic · 23/01/2025 10:38

My message about it being unsuitable for work and intimidating has been deleted.

Was it because I mentioned culture appropriation?
Or how I said Arafat took it as part of his look in the 70s?
Or was it because I said in itself it isn't an Anti anything piece of clothing, it just so happens to be worn by lots of people screaming anti-semitic slogans on marches?

All of which is true?!

SpunkyCritic · 23/01/2025 10:38

My message about it being unsuitable for work and intimidating has been deleted.

Was it because I mentioned culture appropriation?
Or how I said Arafat took it as part of his look in the 70s?
Or was it because I said in itself it isn't an Anti anything piece of clothing, it just so happens to be worn by lots of people screaming anti-semitic slogans on marches?

SpunkyCritic · 23/01/2025 10:22

hangingonfordearlife1 · 22/01/2025 21:28

sorry but wearing a star of david is support for jews not israel. The two are not the same. Many Jews don't support israel. sickening that anyone would support a state that has committed genocide

Do you agree with every action of the UK government?

I find it utterly bizarre that people have such difficulty understanding how you can still be in favour of a self-determining safe country whilst also feeling sympathy for innocent lives lost.

SharonEllis · 22/01/2025 21:36

hangingonfordearlife1 · 22/01/2025 21:28

sorry but wearing a star of david is support for jews not israel. The two are not the same. Many Jews don't support israel. sickening that anyone would support a state that has committed genocide

Not true. Its both. The historical & spiritual connection to Israel is important to the identity of most Jews even if they may or may not support the current government. Most Jews in this country identify as zionists, supporting the state of Israel, regardless of their views on the government.

Finnyhaddock · 22/01/2025 21:36

I think support for Israel should be shown, if that's what you want in the form of the flag.
I'm Jewish and very pro Israel. I'm off to google a Sudra as at 60 I ve never heard of one.
Yellow ribbon is, to me a nice way of reminding the kefir wearers that we want the hostages home.
Star of David is a Jewish symbol. Personally I find it odd when non Jews want to wear one but each to their own.

Oodiks · 22/01/2025 21:33

hangingonfordearlife1 · 22/01/2025 21:28

sorry but wearing a star of david is support for jews not israel. The two are not the same. Many Jews don't support israel. sickening that anyone would support a state that has committed genocide

It's clear that those who support Israel deny these accusations of genocide. I may not agree with all of the current administration's actions, but I do not agree that they amount to genocide.

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hangingonfordearlife1 · 22/01/2025 21:28

sorry but wearing a star of david is support for jews not israel. The two are not the same. Many Jews don't support israel. sickening that anyone would support a state that has committed genocide

Oodiks · 22/01/2025 21:26

Through · 22/01/2025 21:14

In my opinion ‘anti-Zionism’ is anti-Semitic. I can’t really see how denying a people the right to self-determination could be anything other than racism.

I think it is theoretically possible to be anti-Zionist without being antisemitic, but it's rarely achieved.

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Comedycook · 22/01/2025 21:18

just as they would have you labelled as an antisemite for merely breathing if you choose to disagree with Israel

Yawn...stop talking nonsense

Through · 22/01/2025 21:14

GirlWearsRed · 22/01/2025 20:30

It's not "antisemetic" or against all Jewish people. It's worn in solidarity with the people in Palestine. Plenty of Jewish people also support Palestine.

If anything its "anti-zionist" which is a movement, not a race nor a religion. However, those like OP would have you believe its antisemetic, just as they would have you labelled as an antisemite for merely breathing if you choose to disagree with Israel.

In my opinion ‘anti-Zionism’ is anti-Semitic. I can’t really see how denying a people the right to self-determination could be anything other than racism.

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