Hamas and Gaza celebrates

@SpunkyCritic And how do you quantify that? You seem very confident in your assertion.

No idea but less than a Senior Official of Hamas.

True but he's not just a civilian is he. He is a judge at a rabbinical court and a military officer, who hasn't just expressed hate but acted upon it in a destructive manner. How many Palestinian lives has he ruined?

Hate on either side is not acceptable.

But there is a huge difference between a civilian expressing hate and a senior official in the Government.

Ofcourse, all those countless 'isolated' incidents.
A complaint has been filed against this rabbi with the ICC too.

At no point during the interview did anyone point out that perhaps these actions might be even slightly questionable. Everyone was clapping along enthusiastically. Really disturbing.

@Whatsinanamehey that is an isolated incident i am sure 😅 as well as all the other videos posted by practically teenage iidf members on tik tok ! They were actually used as evidence in the icj trial

Rabbi Zarbiv's crimes are well-documented through his own public admissions and video evidence. On January 22, 2025, Zarbiv appeared in a televised interview where he openly admitted to:

• Destroying 50 buildings per week in Gaza, targeting private homes, schools, hospitals, and aid facilities.
• Participating in the complete destruction of entire neighborhoods, such as Jabalia, Rafah, and other towns.
• Publicly inciting violence and hatred, including endorsing the killing of Palestinian civilians and the obliteration of their communities.

In the interview, Zarbiv boasted about "playing" on a D9 bulldozer, describing the deliberate demolition of homes and the obliteration of Gaza’s infrastructure. He confirmed the Givati Brigade's systematic targeting of civilian areas and its role in rendering entire towns uninhabitable.
Additionally, video evidence dated February 7, 2024, shows Zarbiv and his team throwing hand grenades and firing at unarmed Palestinian civilians in Khan Yunis. These acts constitute clear violations of international humanitarian law.

Hate is not one sided. There's a disgusting video of a rabbi who fought in Gaza boasting about how many civilian buildings he was destroying every week. The worse it got, the more the audience clapped on the Israeli talk show.

Now that he has exposed his war crimes by himself then hopefully he will be arrested if he travels out of Israel. I didn't know what was worse; boasting about his sick crimes or the audience clapping in appreciation.

I didn't respond to your post today because I attended a family funeral.

I clarified my point yesterday and will not give you the satisfaction.

"Senior Hamas leader Khalil al-Hayya praised the October 7 massacre as a major achievement that would be taught to future generations of Palestinians with pride, while touting the ceasefire-hostage deal that was announced shortly before he spoke Wednesday as a “historic moment.”

Vile. Not surprised. Keep teaching hate. We see them.

The reality of Hamas neighbours:
www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-leader-touts-ceasefire-as-a-defeat-for-israel-while-hailing-oct-7-atrocities/

An interesting article
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/2025-01-23/ty-article-opinion/netanyahu-is-choosing-hamas-again/00000194-8fb7-da26-a7b6-9ffff0f90000

Of course not all people in a country are the same. But of course - knowing that - we all apply our own generalised judgement, to try to understand the big picture and likely future.

fwiw, my sweeping generalisation for Israelis is that I think a majority now believe that Palestinians aren't willing to live in peace with them, and that the best they can do is contain the situation and limit the damage for Israelis. I don't think that was the majority view previously, but I suspect it is now.

I think only a very tiny number of Israelis never wanted peace; some (but still a minority) are now really angry; more people are afraid but determined to survive as a nation; and almost all are distressed, and disillusioned about their previous hopes for peace.

But what do I know? I could be equally wrong about all that!

can this be applied to Israelis ? When we point out about IDF members behaviour then we are told they’re young and sent to war without the will and therefore are doing stupid things like taking pictures in front of a destroyed Gaza / torturing Palestinians (not in this thread but in others)

when we point out about extremists ? Then we are told that this is a minority and they’ve no representation in the population despite they’re part of the government and the ones making the decisions ?

why do you need proof that many of the Palestinians don’t support Hamas ? Do you have proof that Israelis don’t agree with their government and the war crimes they’re committing ?

i don’t agree with the generalisation based on our own prejudices that the citizens of a country are all the same. If this doesn’t apply to Israelis then don’t apply it to citizens of any other country.

But despite such views, deep down would the majority of both prefer peace over war? I think yes.

Both populations to some extent may now have more extreme views about each other. It is unfortunately the natural consequence of war.

@statsfun Hard to know, as there's very little independent journalism, access for aid organisations and charities is only just increasing, and it looks like your average person is more worried about getting some clean water and keeping their kids alive another day. There seem more pressing concerns than the huge task of reorganising the government. Hopefully there will be a chance to get some basics in place, more access for independent organisations, help from the international community, and a more accurate picture of what Gazans want. I personally would be very surprised if the majority don't want peace and a better future for their children. It's a pretty universal thing for people all over the world to want those things.

I think you have to consider the wider context of any support. I was listening to an Israeli talk of the reasons why so many Israelis have moved towards the right of the political spectrum after the October 7th attack.

After fifteen months of war I would think there are Palestinians who have also gone further towards the right. I should add that from what I have seen and read many Palestinians don't believe that Israelis were raped on October 7th.

I also don't think the IDF have done anything to develop the kind of trust you would need to encourager informers.

I still haven't seen any reason not to believe that many, many Palestinians support Hamas and the attacks on Israel.

Doesn't mean you should demonise the whole population, as you say.

But I think it's counter-productive to pretend it isn't true, just to pander to an idealised Western narrative. You can't build a workable solution on it.

Yes, that is probably true for both.

@statsfun Sorry, I was referring to Israeli conscientious objectors being estranged from society and work opportunities. I don't believe in demonising any entire population when they live under duress, such as conscription. In Gaza I do believe there would be risk to life in defying the current regime.

So if Palestinians couldn't safely pass information about hostage locations, and would be 'estranged from society and work opportunities', doesn't this come back to recognising that this is a majority Palestinian view, not just a few outliers?

That's my point. I honestly don't understand what choice some people think they had. I work with parents who have been threatened with their child's life and intimidated into storing drugs by drug gangs because their child has run up a small drug debt. It happens all the time. These are armed dangerous terrorists