Hamas and Gaza celebrates

But it’s clear that when independent observers are not allowed in then people will question what is the truth? And banning press suggests there maybe things to hide. We won’t know the truth until independent investigators are in on the ground.

inguess some are some aren’t

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/15/our-fight-is-not-over-relatives-of-hostages-welcome-ceasefire-and-vow-to-keep-going

Then world , Israel and Hamas have to work so that there is a permanent ceasefire rather than a broken one. Continue working so ALL hostages have returned. So far it’s Israel delaying the ceasefire as it’s not been approved by the government yet and this has delayed that the first hostages are now released on Sunday and they hope it’ll be on Monday.

That was a different point. And you can approach it differently as you wish

As for a more generalised comment on views re starting the war I know my posts were just that. They were not about specific posters (bar the pp who said it originally) so there is no list in my mind.

To add @EasterIssland i know you have corrected it which is good, but when I posted it was before that and it was just about general views and not really anyone else on the thread

I’ve apologised already twice and expressed what I meant and backed it with a cnn link. If that’s not good enough for some then it’s fine. But those continue accusing me of saying something I’ve not said after my apologies are really twisting their words.

as for the thread topic. Hamas is celebrating ? Yes. Palestinians are celebrating ? Yes. Israel is celebrating? Some of them are , specially the relatives of the hostages. Is the world celebrating? Yes many of us are. We prefer peace over war.

There’s the pp highlighted below. It was commented on a few times. Not sure why you’d skip that.
But that was an interpretation of what the poster said and the poster accused then came back on and explained what they meant. Shame they weren't quoted initially to resolve it

As for wanting usernames that’s not going to happen, it’s a comment on a general view
That's not good enough when people are accusing others of being terrorist sympathisers. That is a serous accusation and by accusing everyone you are in fact accusing no one because it is unlikely someone will recognise themselves as such, but I can see I seem to be alone in wanting posters to be specific about who they are talking about, obviously that just means they have to prove and defend their accusation which maybe some posters don't seem to want to do.
I will leave this thread now for fear I am indirectly accused of anything else.

The idea that you pick out and list individual usernames every time anyone wants to say anything is to over personalise things.
Yet that is what we always do, you address the poster you are talking about.......

I wish we could talk about issues and stop endlessly drilling down into individual posters opinions & trying to find gotchas.
And I wish posters would quote or report the posts they have an issue with because vagua accusations are just a tool to shut people up.

Denying the existence of tunnels??!! Where have you been?

That's on a par with being a flat-earther.

There’s the pp highlighted below. It was commented on a few times. Not sure why you’d skip that.

As for wanting usernames that’s not going to happen, it’s a comment on a general view not just on these threads. If you don’t think it you know it’s not you.

Exactly. October 7th was not a little uptick in a continuous stream of violence. It was a huge attack that was designed to completely recalibrate the situation. It was a decalaration of war.

I think things get blurry in some people minds because of the lies that have been told through out this conflict. So it's true that tunnels exist for instance. It also appears to be true that Israel exaggerates or lies about their use to justify what seem to be war crimes. Israel decimated Al-Shifa and used an animated video as 'proof' of a Hamas command centre to justify the killing of staff and patients and the removal of vital healthcare then after the destruction and killings could provide no actual proof that their animated video was anything but fantasy. There was a bunker under Al Shifa, Israel knew that because they themselves built it but there is no evidence that it was being used as a major Hamas control center as claimed in their little animation.

Really it goes to show the importance of independent witnesses being allowed into war zones. Both Hamas and Israel are extremely unreliable narrators. Hamas are a terrorist organisation. Israel seem to think that calendars and animations are evidence enough to decimate healthcare and torture staff and patients.

Hopefully this ceasefire will happen, independent witnesses will be allowed onto Gaza and we will find out the truth of what has really happened over the past 15months.

@oodiks I dont think anyone else thinks you're accusing everyone & we all know that you are reflectings things that have been said. The idea that you pick out and list individual usernames every time anyone wants to say anything is to over personalise things. I wish we could talk about issues and stop endlessly drilling down into individual posters opinions & trying to find gotchas.

@ExitPersuedByAMemory this is useful in that it corrects a misplaced view in your pp

Will Israel continue to finance Hamas?

This is nonsense. The existence of an extensive network of tunnels is beyond doubt and Hamas is totally open about it.
www.reuters.com/graphics/ISRAEL-PALESTINIANS/GAZA-TUNNELS/gkvldmzorvb/

exactly. Hence there are accusations in this thread that are just twisting words of those they don’t agree with as nobody has expressed support for Hamas or said that Israel declared the war without any provocation,

What do you want, names?
Yes well poster usernames obviously, otherwise you are just indirectly accusing everyone. I haven't found any post that states Israel started the attack without provocation bar yours, hence the confusion

I don’t think anyone would support war crimes. But again to be clear this would include both sides committing war crimes. The type of war crime and magnitude of these crimes may be different but both sides have allegedly committed them nonetheless. I only say allegedly because until they are tried and convicted in an international court they are allegedly.

Recognising the importance of independent confirmation is the opposite of being captured by an ideology. Governments and terrorist organisations can lie about things and can view, interpret and present information from their own perspective when that might not be the full picture. Independent confirmation has less bias and goes through its own review processes. It needs to be free of control from either opposing party - free to document, investigate and report what is. This is particularly important when there are track records of inconsistencies in parties' own accounts, concerns about criminal activity (terrorism, torture, violations of international law), allegations of fraud and deception, etc. The Israeli government and Hamas have both shown conduct which impacts upon their credibility. So, independent assessments are important.

Everything Israel says is lies,
No that is not the poster what said is it? They were pointing out that Israel has yet to provide evidence of some of their claims

When you only believe what backs up your view,
This can go both ways

you’ve allowed yourself to be captured by ideology.
Whose ideology, no one here is captured by any ideology just because we are not ready to believe Israel and their claims with out independent verified evidence?

I think the day independent investigators and observers get access to Gaza will mean we can get verified evidence of what has happened.