Hamas and Gaza celebrates

But the pp you replied to was a response to my post. I was talking about people celebrating atrocities and I think so was the person who responded to my post.

They are not the celebrations I was talking about! I'm talking about the celebrations of the ceasefire which is what started this thread.

To add if they are the celebrations @SpunkyCritic was referring to we seem to be at cross purposes here and that is separate to what the thread is about.

They are not the celebrations I was talking about! I'm talking about the celebrations of the ceasefire which is what started this thread.

To add if they are the celebrations @SpunkyCritic was referring to we seem to be at cross purposes here and that is separate to what the thread is about.

It was celebrations
What's wrong with that?

What’s wrong with celebrating bodies of Israeli civilians being paraded around? Really?

Your reply it to me, so let's be clear I haven't condoned the deaths and displacement of any Palestinians.

Thousands of Palestinians celebrated in the streets of Gaza when the dead bodies of Israeli civilians were paraded. They held hostages in their homes, and we're and still complicit in their inhumane captivity.

That's not the behaviour of innocent civilians.

It was celebrations
What's wrong with that?

Including phone calls bragging, of killing Jews.
Where are you getting this information?

There were no shouts of yay, we are free
Why would they shout that? They're not free they're are still under an illegal occupation

@Dulra It's this recording I think:

https://x.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1716882025502945465

@Dulra It's this recording I think:

https://x.com/MarinaMedvin/status/1716882025502945465

Why shouldn't they be judged.
Judge them all you want that's your prerogative that wasn't the point I was making.

You've judged the actions of Israel government
Yes

and Israelis
No I haven't

The 7th October was not the evil deeds of a few bad individuals, it took a collective endeavour by thousands of ordinary people... in the hatred of Jews.
Don't agree. Don't equate innocent civilians and children with Hamas but I guess that makes it easier for people to condone their deaths, displacement, maiming and starvation.

That's one of the things I find so disturbing and worrying.
There were no shouts of yay, we are free. It was celebrations, including phone calls bragging, of killing Jews.

PP isn’t wrong though, October 7th wasn’t just about a few bad individuals.
Over 6,000 fighters entered Israel that day, around 2,000 of them allegedly civilians.
And then the people who celebrated in the street of Gaza as the bodies of the Israeli victims were being paraded around.

Why shouldn't they be judged.
Judge them all you want that's your prerogative that wasn't the point I was making.

You've judged the actions of Israel government
Yes

and Israelis
No I haven't

The 7th October was not the evil deeds of a few bad individuals, it took a collective endeavour by thousands of ordinary people... in the hatred of Jews.
Don't agree. Don't equate innocent civilians and children with Hamas but I guess that makes it easier for people to condone their deaths, displacement, maiming and starvation.

Why shouldn't they be judged.

The 7th October was not the evil deeds of a few bad individuals, it took a collective endeavour by thousands of ordinary people... in the hatred of Jews.

You've judged the actions of Israel government and Israelis for the past 15 months.

This thread is perfectly legitimate.

Do you not agree then that Israels treatment of Palestinians plays a part? Would you like the country who kept you living under apartheid or who protected the people kicking you out of your home or who prevented you from studying or from receiving cancer treatment or visiting a dying relative or travelling with your seriously ill child? And that's before we get into the killings and the bombings. It's a bit simplistic to say it's antisemitism, the end, don't you think?

You've missed the point.

Neither you nor I, nor anyone on this thread, know how we would react in their circumstances so please don't presume. We are lucky we don't walk in their shoes.

I absolutely agree with this statement but do you not see that you did just that to the people in Gaza, who have been enduring unimaginable trauma and pain, by starting this thread and judging them for their celebration of a ceasefire?

Neither you nor I, nor anyone on this thread, know how we would react in their circumstances so please don't presume. We are lucky we don't walk in their shoes.

I absolutely agree with this statement but do you not see that you did just that to the people in Gaza, who have been enduring unimaginable trauma and pain, by starting this thread and judging them for their celebration of a ceasefire?

It's very easy for you to be an armchair warrior while families wait for news of their loved ones kidnapped in barbaric circumstances by Hamas terrorists.
Neither you nor I, nor anyone on this thread, know how we would react in their circumstances so please don't presume. We are lucky we don't walk in their shoes.

Giving Palestinians basic human rights.

Like I said in a previous post would you like the country that forces you to live under apartheid? https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2024/07/experts-hail-icj-declaration-illegality-israels-presence-occupied

Or stops you receiving medical treatment https://www.btselem.org/gazastrip/20230404in2022tooisraelpreventedthousandsofpalestiniansinneedofmedicalcarefromleavinggazafortreatment

Or protects the people who burn down your villages and steal your homes
https://www.btselem.org/publications/202309thepogromsareworkingthetransferisalreadyhappening

Or locks up your children indefinitely and physically and sexually abuses them?
https://www.thejournal.ie/children-abused-in-israeli-prison-6443831-Jul2024/

None of this is acceptable. You can't treat people that way and expect them to like you. If Israel start treating Palestinians like humans and the current level of hatred is still there then Israel will have cause to build a big wall and not let any Palestinians in but if what you say is true and Israelis are always going to have to do whatever they can to prevent the Palestinians succeeding in destroying the Jewish state where does the sexual and physical abuse of children fit into that? How does that help? How does burning down people's villages help? How has any of that made Israel safer?

You have no addressed my point. What solution do you imagine could work? You cannot have peace with people committed to murdering you. And as we’ve already established, the Arabs have been committed to murdering the Jews before there was an Israel or a Palestine. The Israelis are always going to have to do whatever they can to prevent the Palestinians succeeding in destroying the Jewish state, and they’re going to have to defend themselves if they fail. Appeasing terrorists doesn’t work.

It is apartheid, there is no debating, it was found by the ICJ to be so. I'll withdraw from this conversation because it's pointless if you believe Israel are above International law or that Palestinians aren't worthy of the same human rights protections the rest of us enjoy.

This is a perfect example of the levels of desperation Anti -Israel activists have to go to, to maintain their position that Israel is the bad guy and their side is the good guy victim, even after the ‘good guy’ openly committed well planned atrocities designed to provoke a violent war on their own people.

They have to resort to denying reality happened. Instead reality is reframed as conspiracy.

There is no apartheid. Non citizens do not have the same rights as citizens. That is normal. In the West Bank, they are (mostly) not citizens of Israel so they do not have rights in Israel.
There is heavy policing by Israel because it is necessary. The Palestinians have shown time and time again that they will continue attacking Israel at every opportunity. They started before Israel was formed and they have never stopped. What do you think could happen instead? Withdraw unilaterally like the Israelis did from Gaza? That worked really well, right! There will need to be supervision of the West Bank until they want to be safe neighbours to a Jewish state. How long that will take, no one knows.

Sorry, I mean the apartheid Israel enact in the OPT, I thought that was obvious especially since the recent court case but clearly not.

The same question stands. Do you think apartheid is 'defensive'? Do you think living under apartheid plays a role in Palestinians feeling towards Israel?