Hamas and Gaza celebrates

I have never and will never support sexual violence by anyone or against anyone. I’m not sure where you got that from.

I simply want to hear what you think the future should look like. You’re extremely reluctant to share, which makes me wonder if perhaps your favourite path to peace is one without Israel in it. How do you imagine giving sovereignty to a terrorist organisation will play out?

Neither 'side' is a winner. Hamas is not indicative of the Palestinian people, and the Israeli state is not indicative of the Israeli people. This is a terrible system which has been created largely by the West - Britain, France, America - who effectively forced Jewish people en masse to settle in Israel post WW2 through refusing to take Jewish refugees, and the mistreatment of the Jewish refugees who did settle with them. Furthermore, the trauma of the Holocaust encouraged many Jewish people to settle in Israel, as they felt that many other countries would always maltreat them. The 'two state solution' was thought up by the West, and doesn't work. This isn't the Palestinian or Israeli people's fault, it's the fault of the West which organised and orchestrated this affair and forced two groups of people into one small space.

Hamas is a terrorist organisation. The Palestinian people have been systematically oppressed for years now. These are not mutually exclusive statements: both can be true at the same time. While Hamas indisputably 'started' it, this doesn't mean that the conditions the Palestinian people have been forced under aren't horrific (this doesn't mean that Hamas's violence is justified, but this doesn't mean that the Israeli state's treatment of Palestine is justified either). Even before the Israeli state bombed them, Gaza is tiny, overcrowded, and the Israeli state has prevented the Palestinian people from accessing crucial resources for years. If you look at the recent bombing of Palestine there is no way of looking at it which doesn't reveal it to be gratuitous violence - the mass bombing of innocent civilians and children is an obvious genocide under the thin veil of 'justice'.

Netanyahu is a terrifying megalomaniac who is on record for committing war crimes. He is not representative of his people, and if you look at the Israeli news a lot of it is actually pretty critical of the Israeli state. The Jewish people have been oppressed and mistreated for centuries across the world, and anti-semitism is a very real and horrific experience for many Jewish people. This still doesn't mean that the Israeli state is justified in its treatment of the Palestinian people.

Its one of the issues that really lays bare how imbalanced the discussion is doesnt it? If someone cares about Palestimians why on earth would they want murderers and terrorists released to terrorise, radicalise and coerce young Palestians into their brigades as cannon fodder? Is barbaric. Its not jist that these people make peace with Israel less likely but it makes rebuilding Palestinian civil society less likely too.

It’s not courts but independent international doctors as well as international organisations. Do they all have interests ?

No, international doctors have said several times that they’ve never seen Hamas using hospitals as military bases. There is yet proof to be shown as well as verified that this is the case. So far , only Israel has accused but not provided full proof of this.

What I find troubling is that some extremely dangerous people are being released from Israeli jails as part of the ceasefire deal, and I genuinely don't understand why anyone would want them free or want them back. Prisoners like Arafat Irafaiya, who raped and murdered a teenager.

So if Israel were to try to meet them halfway in the name of peace, it would require Israel to be half destroyed, ie halfway to not existing. That is obviously absurd and no democratic nation would ever vote for a party running on the promise to kill or exile half of their own citizens to appease the terrorists next door.
So what do you suggest? You also keep saying meeting them half way, what is half way? Gaza are still under an illegal occupation or are you against a two state solution? Maybe I keep missing your point because it's as clear as mud what you are trying to say

First of all, there are experts on both sides. It’s not simply a case of “goodies” and “baddies” no matter how satisfying that might be.
I think there is a tendency, especially on MN, to consider international bodies like the UN etc to somehow be more than the sum of their parts. Law within a state is backed up by the state’s right and ability to enforce compliance. International law is not. So international law is essentially a synonym for politics. That means that “neutral” bodies are no more neutral than the members which form them. While I am sure there are plenty of judges who are well informed and genuinely aspire to be neutral, that isn’t human nature, it isn’t the nature of international law and there is little to no way to counter them. So no, I don’t think the courts are some magical, infallible, politically neutral machine. They’re people with interests representing countries which have interests.
I totally believe that doctors going into war zones see the worst of the worst. I am sure that has been true throughout history and across the world. It’s the nature of being an emergency doctor that you find yourself surrounded by people in emergency need of medical aid. Their opinions are valid, useful and not representative of the whole situations.
Perhaps you already know that there is no shortage of doctors, both Palestinian and foreign, who confirm that Hamas used Gaza’s hospitals as military bases and treated ambulances like their own personal taxi service. In international law, medical infrastructure has a protected status unless it is being used for military proposes, then the special status is revoked and the obligation is simply to cause as little harm to it as possible.

Its not hard to know if you are willing to try to understand. It was perfectly clear to start with and they have explained again. They were referring to the concept of meeting 'half way' which is a basic negotiating concept. As Hamas wants to completely destroy Israel and all Jews 'half way' is not really possible, hence mention of killing half.

Tbh yes I agree with the poster with what they meant once it’s been explained in their last comment. However , im lacking as well a comment about the current Israeli government. Israeli government whilst not a terrorist group, they don’t see Palestinians as humans but animals and are seeking the destruction of the Palestinians (gvir i.e). There can be a ceasefire but it won’t last long whilst Hamas and the current Israeli government as in place. Many things need to change for peace in the area.

Palestinian political and social leaders, especially Hamas, clearly say that they want peace without Israel. They say that they will do whatever is necessary to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews. Their actions so far have consistently confirmed that they will live up to their words whenever they have the opportunity to

And so have Israel, but you seem to think that's ok? This did not start on October 7th, it started in 1948. Please look up the death and injury stats on both sides and then see for yourself who is taking the opportunity to kill who.

The posters comments keep getting deleted so hard to know.

Yes, you did. The poster has explained again what they meant.

mysteriously disappeared.
Or deleted because they were against talk guidelines.....

No I didn't

Would anything I say change your rather 'niche' views that keep getting you deleted? Children being sexually assaulted, villages being burned to the ground, people living without basic rights under a system of apartheid, none of that matters to you as much as Israel does. Like I said it is a pointless conversation when someone believes that one country should be able to do anything they like whether it is within the confines of the law or not if they feel threatened but another set of people don't deserve to have human rights because some of them think bad thoughts when they are being threatened.

Does this apply as well to judges as well who have requested an arrest warrant for Israeli PM and also the international court who has said Israel is illegally occupying Palestine, and also several doctors who have been to Gaza in the last few years and seen the devastation of Israel actions? Does this mean all these experts have closed their eyes as they’ve embedded the Palestinian - Israel conflict as part of their identity marker you’re talking about ?

You utterly missed the point. I was the first one to mention killing half the Israelis, but a couple of my posts have mysteriously disappeared.
The context was about compromise and meeting each other halfway to make a stable peace agreement. I was explaining why this is a delusional idea. Palestinian political and social leaders, especially Hamas, clearly say that they want peace without Israel. They say that they will do whatever is necessary to destroy Israel and kill all the Jews. Their actions so far have consistently confirmed that they will live up to their words whenever they have the opportunity to. So if Israel were to try to meet them halfway in the name of peace, it would require Israel to be half destroyed, ie halfway to not existing. That is obviously absurd and no democratic nation would ever vote for a party running on the promise to kill or exile half of their own citizens to appease the terrorists next door.

👏👏

Totally missed the point!

Spot on.

Read the messages that followed you'll see there was a misunderstanding which celebrations were being discussed

Only because
Yes only because of a raft of reasons so they don't have the capability to kill half of Israelis

@SpunkyCritic I think the problem there is that the Palestinian struggle has become an identity marker in the west. It’s simply too much to research and keep up with every conflict and political issue in the world, so a few high-profile issues become a stand-in for all. That necessarily means that the discussion is simplified and generalised so that the general public can choose a side and tell everyone what they chose, to help them find their people. Add in that it’s tempting to want “goodies” and “baddies” in any story and that many people get their news from social media, and you have a perfect storm for strong emotions based on little to no knowledge. Then, once it’s part of your identity, you have to simply close your eyes to the other side and ignore the evidence you don’t like. It’s how we end up with liberal, feminist, democratic “goodies” justifying rape because the women were Jews and amplifying the voices of people trying to destroy a democratic nation state.
You’d think, hearing those voices celebrate “winning” their war and gearing up for the total destruction of Israel, whilst simultaneously claiming to have been victims of a premeditated genocide, that they’d notice there was something amiss, but apparently not!