Last functioning hospital in Northern Gaza is stormed by the IDF

Hospitals have been attacked, set on fire, patients and staff rounded up and taken away (some killed), snipers shooting people trying to leave hospitals during sieges, oxygen and power generators targeted, premature babies left to die.

It's not great, is it? I mean, it's certainly not normal behaviour in a war.

The systematic dismantling of the health system and a siege for over 80 days on North Gaza puts the lives of the 75,000 Palestinians remaining in the area at risk.

https://www.who.int/news/item/28-12-2024-kamal-adwan-hospital-out-of-service-following-a-raid-today-and-repeated-attacks-since-october

No maybe not bombed. But a civilian population left without any functioning hospitals ?

Wouldn’t happen though would it so your point is moot. That Western country would not be at war with itself and a hospital would therefore not be a legitimate military target.

I don’t think any hospital in Gaza was bombed when if was full of civilians and medical personnel was it?

I appreciate that you are giving us an Israeli perspective. We need to hear that even if we don’t agree.
Do you agree with Netanyahu’s approach - ie do you think it has been successful?
and do you think it is acceptable in humanitarian terms?

@BadgerInDungarees so I am as balanced as you are? At least you acknowledged that.

Have you been to Israel? Know anyone that lives there?

In your judgement, let's say if there are terrorists in a London hospital, or in a New York hospital or in a Sydney hospital (or in a ....... hospital - fill the blank with a Western city hospital name) is it okay to bomb the hospital full of civilians and medical personnel?

Or is it only fair game when it is not a Western or an Israeli hospital?

A bit about Ramon airport.

https://www.newarab.com/news/pa-urges-palestinians-not-use-israels-ramon-airport?amp

The medical evacuees and their family members travelled to the UEA via the Ramon Airport, the 2nd busiest airport in Israel.

So they did have to enter Israel so you did misinform in your post that they didn’t have to enter Israel.

This was the 23rd flight as reported.

There seems to be family members accompanying the other children, 72 for 55 children. Do you think this mother was singled out for no particular reason but other family members weren’t?

I agree that I haven’t any solutions to offer. And there aren’t any easy answers. But we’ve had over a year of this approach and I can’t see what has been achieved.

Oh look, but it hasn’t been reported than any Gazan has taken up the offer.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/20/netanyahu-offers-5m-in-exchange-for-any-gaza-hostage/

What other approach was there - allow Hamas free access to Israel and Egypt (fair is fair surely?) by tearing down the border walls of their ‘open air prison’, or even creating a single state where Hamas was free to murder Jewish people as much as they want, releasing 000’s of Palestinian criminals (many convicted of terrorism) in return for the hostages (many of whom will be already dead or executed before release), and letting Hamas remain in power emboldened by their win to do a lot worse than Oct 7th. That seems to be what a lot of people want.

If you don’t think Hamas should remain in power, how exactly were Israel supposed to get rid of them? Maybe the UN could give it a go?

And I must have missed your posts where you talk about the Israeli occupation, talk about all of the people they hold in administrative detention without trial or a fair trial, talk about the children who have been physically and sexually abused in detention, talk about Israels apartheid, where you talk about the 100s of people Israel killed in the year before Oct 7 2023, where you talk about the mass graves in Gaza or the babies freezing to death or the Israelis trashing aid convoys. You haven't even acknowledged that Israel have stopped a mum travelling with her severely injured child or that Israel controls who leaves Gaza. Does that make you misinformed without a balanced understanding? Don't come at me like you are some kind of balanced poster here who sees and acknowledges the damage done by everyone involved in this.

I accept that conducting a war against terrorists who embed themselves inside a civilian population is very difficult.
I’ve never demonised IDF soldiers as I’m sure they contain the usual mix of good and bad etc.
Im sure there are as many bad apples in most armies ( but for the Palestinians one bad apple with a gun pointed at their family is one too many)

What do you think their instructions are btw?

I imagine their instructions are to bomb / evacuate areas where Hamas are hiding. Since that’s pretty much everywhere it makes life impossible for ordinary Palestinians.
Yes - I know Hamas are to blame and they deliberately started this conflict. But that’s not the fault of the Palestinian children who it appears are suffering far more than the people who caused the war .

Apart from humanitarian considerations- I just can’t see that Netanyahu’s approach is successful . The hostages have not been released/ the war is ongoing/ Gaza is destroyed/ Netanyahu’s government have brought Israel into disrepute
I don’t think there are any easy answers or solutions but there must be a better way than Netanyahu’s approach ?
edited to add - I’m not as knowledgeable as many other posters . But I’m fairly objective and I’m not anti Israeli .

Has this been disproven then?

And btw those posting sources from Haaretz do you consider this news source, with 4% of Israel readership, unbiased?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/haaretz-in-government-crosshairs-after-publisher-calls-terrorists-freedom-fighters/amp/

@BadgerInDungarees I must have missed the posts where you talked about Hama's role in what's going on and the fact the constant attacks by them on Conveys etc make movement difficult. That inspite of the last months they continue to fire into Israel from Gaza.

You don't have to talk about everything and as far as I am concerned the antisemitism ship has sailed but you have to provide context. Or readers could be misinformed or think your knowledge of the Middle East doesn't have a balanced understanding.

I’m sure there are bad apples in the IDF as with any army. There are also probably young people fighting, (age 18-24), heavily traumatised and in fear for their lives, who do things they wouldn’t do if they weren’t, the same as any other army. The posters on here saying the IDF are all evil terrorists enjoying killing Palestinians are spreading hate propaganda.

What do you think their instructions are btw?

Name another war where enemy combatants have no uniform to differentiate themselves from civilians, where civilian areas and buildings are deliberately used as bases and rocket launches, civilian homes booby trapped, aid is stolen by a government to deliberately starve their own people, where absolutely no places of safety were provided to civilians when their government intentionally declared war on another country knowing full well they’d come after them by carrying atrocities they filmed and that no other country would ignore, where babies and children are taken hostage (for 15 months now for the Bilbas children) and other civilian hostages were held in civilian homes?

There are accounts of bombs being strapped to the underbellies of sheep, donkeys and dogs FFS.

How on earth can you conduct an effective war in those circumstances? Despite this, there are reports by military strategists that this war has the lowest civilian to combatant death ratio in the history of urban warfare.

No one is arguing that any amount of civilian casualties is acceptable. It is a sad fact of war.

If Gaza hadn’t been filled with underground tunnels for terrorist purposes, there wouldn’t have had to be so much bombing to fill them in.

mwi.westpoint.edu/underground-nightmare-hamas-tunnels-and-the-wicked-problem-facing-the-idf/

People who repeat Israeli propaganda, as in the poster LoremIpsumCici was responding to. It is so obvious it is straight out of a propaganda handbook, I'm not sure if they genuinely believe it or just repeat it ad nauseum because you often see the same things over and over on various different comment platforms.

@dulra see when you make less than intelligent comments Like that I can see why others find it hard to take you seriously.
Nice personal attack there, who are these others you speak of?

Yes and at least one of those children couldn't travel with their mum because Israel wouldn't let her out. Do you think you can just rock up to the border and leave? Everyone of those children had to get Israels permission and everyone of their escorts had to get Israels permission. It's been this way for years under Israels occupation.

Who apart from you is saying that it is a one way street? Again all of these made up rules. If we want to talk about something Israel has done wrong we have to talk about everything else everyone else has done wrong or be accused of being antisemtic? There is no misinformation in my posts. I don't spread misinformation. Just because you don't like what people are saying it doesn't make it propaganda or misinformation.

She was referring to user243245346 who lied that Kamal Adwan hospital was a military field hospital headed by a Hamas colonel.

Suprised you couldn’t connect the dots. All you have to do is use the quote history link.

I think you will find I posted the article about the children going for treatment in the UEA on the other thread.

I don't think it's black and white. It is absolutely appalling and things should change. I read an article in an Israeli newspaper today that says as much as carries some clout. People do care.

I am not offended by what you are talking about- the truth will out one way or another. I just don't believe it's all a one way street for many reasons. So what I can't get onboard with is that..... anninability see what is going on beyond the misinformation, propaganda and thinly veiled Islamophobia and antisemitism on all sides .

Right but what members of the IDF are reporting is happening is appalling right? Nothing you say changes that. I can't get on board with being more offended that people are talking about what is happening than what is actually happening. Why do you think these members of the IDF are coming out and telling us what is happening? So we can ignore it?

And on a thread where just a few posts ago people were talking about how Israel won't let a mum go with her child for treatment abroad I don't know why you are talking about other countries not letting people in like it as simple as that. Why aren't Israel letting people out?