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Conflict in the Middle East

Slovenia Demands Israel's Removal From Eurovision 2025

842 replies

EasterIssland · 23/12/2024 15:51

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-12-22/ty-article/.premium/slovenia-demands-israels-removal-from-eurovision-2025/00000193-ed37-da9f-ad9b-ed7f3d140000

OP posts:
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17
YourAmplePlumPoster · 18/01/2025 18:05

Next up: Executive order on day one: Trump gets men out of women's sports and bathrooms. Must be bad, eh?

YourAmplePlumPoster · 18/01/2025 17:56

Guess what? The Trump threat worked. We got a peace deal.

stomachamelon · 06/01/2025 09:49

I am sorry you feel like that. Distraction is used in so many ways on these threads as is guiding them when you feel you aren’t getting your own way.
I am happy as I am though :)

wanderingstar23 · 06/01/2025 09:19

stomachamelon · 05/01/2025 12:19

Another one to add to the list of things ‘we’ can/ cannot discuss or be pulled up on.

Are all contributors on these threads treated the same way?

Shall we engage with what the historian actually said? Or is it a better tactic when we are on shaky ground to distract by being affronted?

stomachamelon · 05/01/2025 12:19

Another one to add to the list of things ‘we’ can/ cannot discuss or be pulled up on.

Are all contributors on these threads treated the same way?

GentleScroller · 05/01/2025 11:02

Auvergne63 · 05/01/2025 09:46

Of course it is when it is done by others working in the same fields, not by Jo Bloggs. You seem not to understand this.

Jo Bloggs, like us, you meant to say. I can only assume you are referring to all the other contributors on this thread who aren't professors.

'Jo Bloggs' can't evaluate what we read, question the source, check the evidence, watch for errors, and question unconscious bias.

You've put us right in our place this morning.

Auvergne63 · 05/01/2025 10:48

SharonEllis · 05/01/2025 10:28

😂 no, anyone is free to disagree with a professor.

Of course but only if you want to make a fool of yourself. I guess, that's up to the individual. I don't argue with experts because I don't have enough knowledge to do so.

SharonEllis · 05/01/2025 10:28

Auvergne63 · 05/01/2025 09:46

Of course it is when it is done by others working in the same fields, not by Jo Bloggs. You seem not to understand this.

😂 no, anyone is free to disagree with a professor.

Auvergne63 · 05/01/2025 09:46

SharonEllis · 05/01/2025 09:40

You seem to not understand how history works. Disagreeing with Professors is part of the practice of testing existing arguments and is not only fine but expected in the practice of academic history. Its how knowledge moves forward.

Of course it is when it is done by others working in the same fields, not by Jo Bloggs. You seem not to understand this.

SharonEllis · 05/01/2025 09:40

Auvergne63 · 05/01/2025 09:34

Yes, I read the link you provided, but I disagree. So, I'm not going to read your summary of the facts. I was being sarcastic in my original reply about Netflix.
You disagree with the findings of a professor who is an expert in the history of religious thoughts? Ok...
Correcting my grammar is unnecessary as I am no longer at school, and you are no longer a teacher. Please do not attempt to make me feel self-conscious about my ability to write a grammatically correct reply. Dialogue is the aim of MN, not to curtail speech.
No one can make you feel anything without your consent. You and I are responsible for our own feelings.
I would appreciate it if you showed me some respect and did not ridicule me on a public forum.
I treat people the way they treat me. Ask yourself if your original response showed me respect. Is "read a bloody book before making such embarrassing remarks" in any way respectful?
Before pointing the finger at someone, make sure your hands are clean.

You seem to not understand how history works. Disagreeing with Professors is part of the practice of testing existing arguments and is not only fine but expected in the practice of academic history. Its how knowledge moves forward.

Auvergne63 · 05/01/2025 09:34

GentleScroller · 04/01/2025 23:37

Yes, I read the link you provided, but I disagree. So, I'm not going to read your summary of the facts. I was being sarcastic in my original reply about Netflix.

Correcting my grammar is unnecessary as I am no longer at school, and you are no longer a teacher. Please do not attempt to make me feel self-conscious about my ability to write a grammatically correct reply. Dialogue is the aim of MN, not to curtail speech.

I would appreciate it if you showed me some respect and did not ridicule me on a public forum.

Yes, I read the link you provided, but I disagree. So, I'm not going to read your summary of the facts. I was being sarcastic in my original reply about Netflix.
You disagree with the findings of a professor who is an expert in the history of religious thoughts? Ok...
Correcting my grammar is unnecessary as I am no longer at school, and you are no longer a teacher. Please do not attempt to make me feel self-conscious about my ability to write a grammatically correct reply. Dialogue is the aim of MN, not to curtail speech.
No one can make you feel anything without your consent. You and I are responsible for our own feelings.
I would appreciate it if you showed me some respect and did not ridicule me on a public forum.
I treat people the way they treat me. Ask yourself if your original response showed me respect. Is "read a bloody book before making such embarrassing remarks" in any way respectful?
Before pointing the finger at someone, make sure your hands are clean.

GentleScroller · 04/01/2025 23:37

Auvergne63 · 30/12/2024 16:27

You haven't actually read the link I provided, have you?
Here is an extract:
"The name “Palestine” for that region also had a long history, though. It first appeared in the fifth century BCE, in the writings of the Greek historian Herodotus.
He wrote of a “district of Syria, called Palaistinê”, between Egypt and Phoenicia, an ancient region that corresponds to modern Lebanon, with adjoining parts of modern Syria and Israel. So, the land (or part of it) was called “Palestine” by the Greeks before it was called “Judea” by the Romans".
I would like to add that this article was written by P C Almond, Emeritus Professor in the History of Religious Thought from The University of Queensland. So no, Netflix didn't say it.
Please do some proper research about the Middle East BC (that's means Before Christ)
Sometime the advice you give to others is the one you should follow yourself, as plainly demonstrated when you wrote BC, instead of BCE (that means Before Common Era), This was introduced in England and Wales in 2002. Do keep up.
I am also twitching, as an ex teacher of twenty years at "that's means". A grammar book would be a good investment, I feel.
read a bloody book before making such embarrassing remarks.
See above.
This makes me laugh because, as an avid reader, my house cannot take any more books. I am a book hoarder and so is my husband. Never assume anything about anyone.

Yes, I read the link you provided, but I disagree. So, I'm not going to read your summary of the facts. I was being sarcastic in my original reply about Netflix.

Correcting my grammar is unnecessary as I am no longer at school, and you are no longer a teacher. Please do not attempt to make me feel self-conscious about my ability to write a grammatically correct reply. Dialogue is the aim of MN, not to curtail speech.

I would appreciate it if you showed me some respect and did not ridicule me on a public forum.

GentleScroller · 04/01/2025 22:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

wanderingstar23 · 04/01/2025 17:28

Those same sensible people who put all that effort into asserting that those extremists should not be the subject of an international arrest warrant

EasterIssland · 04/01/2025 17:21

SharonEllis · 04/01/2025 16:36

Any sensible person can distinguish between the words of an extremist and the views and experiences of more mainstream Israelis and the wider issues of the right of the state of Israel to exist and defend itself.

Any sensible person can see that these extremists are part of the Israeli government and making the decisions in the name of the Israeli citizens.

OP posts:
Auvergne63 · 04/01/2025 17:01

SharonEllis · 04/01/2025 16:36

Any sensible person can distinguish between the words of an extremist and the views and experiences of more mainstream Israelis and the wider issues of the right of the state of Israel to exist and defend itself.

The problem is that he is the National Security Minister, despite being convicted of inciting racism in 2007 amongst other things.
His views haven't changed and the fact that he was democratically elected is a reflection on the electorate. That also apply to Smotrich.
Both of them hold high office in the government as well as influence.
https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-bengvir-jerusalem-alaqsa-cd27dfed6d63f4dec3eae2f51ee23ff0
https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-bezalel-smotrich-rode-unfiltered-radicalism-and-unforgiving-politics-to-power/

FILE - Israeli lawmaker Itamar Ben-Gvir, center, speaks to the media surrounded by right wing activists as they gather for a march in Jerusalem, April 20, 2022. Ben-Gvir visited Jerusalem’s most sensitive holy site Thursday, July 18, 2024, a move that...

Who is Itamar Ben-Gvir, the far-right minister who visited a contested Jerusalem holy site?

Israel’s far-right national security minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir, has visited Jerusalem’s most sensitive holy site, a move that could threaten the delicate Gaza cease-fire talks.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-bengvir-jerusalem-alaqsa-cd27dfed6d63f4dec3eae2f51ee23ff0

SharonEllis · 04/01/2025 16:36

Whatsinanamehey · 04/01/2025 11:03

What's the point of spending so much on hasbara when you have dangerouse extremists like Ben Gvir in government. Whose words and rhetoric can reverse any perceived positivity in moments.

Any sensible person can distinguish between the words of an extremist and the views and experiences of more mainstream Israelis and the wider issues of the right of the state of Israel to exist and defend itself.

wanderingstar23 · 04/01/2025 14:50

ararara · 04/01/2025 13:10

@wanderingstar23 I'm honestly shocked that some posters don't get banned when they say such awful things repeatedly.

The pressure not to dissent is real

ararara · 04/01/2025 13:10

wanderingstar23 · 03/01/2025 23:15

apparently not. but to quote Michelle Obama - when they go low, we go high.

Edited

@wanderingstar23 I'm honestly shocked that some posters don't get banned when they say such awful things repeatedly.

Whatsinanamehey · 04/01/2025 11:03

What's the point of spending so much on hasbara when you have dangerouse extremists like Ben Gvir in government. Whose words and rhetoric can reverse any perceived positivity in moments.

Auvergne63 · 04/01/2025 10:53

SharonEllis · 04/01/2025 09:52

Why do you call 'hasbara' propaganda? All countries invest in diplomacy, advocacy and trying to control information and messaging. Everyone does it in the multi media age In the face of extraordinary propaganda against them of course they are going to counter that. We see some of that propaganda on these threads. People post incredibly biased inflammatory material & lots of people don't counter it. Any country facing the depth of propaganda that Israel faces would do the same. Why do you expect Israel to behave differently?

Why do you call 'hasbara' propaganda? All countries invest in diplomacy, advocacy and trying to control information and messaging.
I suggest you read these two articles. These explain it better than I ever could.
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/hasbara-a-long-running-strategy/
https://ccastilho.medium.com/the-hasbara-paradox-in-the-gaza-war-a8206d48ca23

The Hasbara paradox in the Gaza war

The current conflict between Israel and the Palestinian group Hamas has made clear an especially important change in the strategic…

https://ccastilho.medium.com/the-hasbara-paradox-in-the-gaza-war-a8206d48ca23

Dulra · 04/01/2025 10:35

SharonEllis · 04/01/2025 09:52

Why do you call 'hasbara' propaganda? All countries invest in diplomacy, advocacy and trying to control information and messaging. Everyone does it in the multi media age In the face of extraordinary propaganda against them of course they are going to counter that. We see some of that propaganda on these threads. People post incredibly biased inflammatory material & lots of people don't counter it. Any country facing the depth of propaganda that Israel faces would do the same. Why do you expect Israel to behave differently?

I think it is a bit of a stretch to suggest the misinformation, smear campaigns against anyone, organisation or country that challenges them, and the genocidal rhetoric coming from some of the Israeli government ministers is an example of diplomacy and advocacy. I think it is the lack of diplomacy and advocacy that is part of their problem.

BadgerInDungarees · 04/01/2025 10:30

SharonEllis · 04/01/2025 09:52

Why do you call 'hasbara' propaganda? All countries invest in diplomacy, advocacy and trying to control information and messaging. Everyone does it in the multi media age In the face of extraordinary propaganda against them of course they are going to counter that. We see some of that propaganda on these threads. People post incredibly biased inflammatory material & lots of people don't counter it. Any country facing the depth of propaganda that Israel faces would do the same. Why do you expect Israel to behave differently?

Would they? Budget cuts left, right and centre but 150million to target US college campuses? Wouldn't it make more sense to start dealing with the reasons why Israels popularity has plummeted to depths not seen before? When your country has been found to operating apartheid and racial segregation what can you possibly say to make people think that's cool, I can overlook apartheid? Or when people are hearing your leaders say that they are going to destroy everything and then they are watching them blowing up hospitals what can you possibly say to boost your popularity? The thing that makes the most sense is to condemn and fire those people who have been spreading hateful, violent rhetoric rather than pretend that it never happened or that it's a coincidence that the country is doing exactly what they said they would but that's not being done.

Surely people realise that if you keep acting the same way that has made people think this place is not very nice then spending millions at the cost of public services is a waste of money when you don't intend to change the things that people don't like about you. Just like lawyers can force bowlers to accept Israel in their competition or the Eurovision can refuse to ban Israel, they can't force anyone to actually want Israel there, the only thing that will do that is to address the reasons people want no association with Israel in the first place or all you are doing is kicking the can down the road.

SharonEllis · 04/01/2025 09:52

Auvergne63 · 04/01/2025 09:17

I think some people cannot see or do not want to see that what is happening in Gaza and the criticism of the Israel government/Idf are linked.
Like you, I have also read that they are going to spend even more on propaganda. They must be very concerned to do this.

Why do you call 'hasbara' propaganda? All countries invest in diplomacy, advocacy and trying to control information and messaging. Everyone does it in the multi media age In the face of extraordinary propaganda against them of course they are going to counter that. We see some of that propaganda on these threads. People post incredibly biased inflammatory material & lots of people don't counter it. Any country facing the depth of propaganda that Israel faces would do the same. Why do you expect Israel to behave differently?

Auvergne63 · 04/01/2025 09:17

BadgerInDungarees · 03/01/2025 23:39

I'd be curious what work lawyers for Israel UK have been doing on the serious issues you describe. I'm sure right at this very minute they are working to make sure those poor children get justice, oh no wait they actually oppose Netanyahus arrest warrant. But the people talking about what they are doing as always are the problem.

I don't know how long it will take people to realise that if Israel stops doing bad things, like apartheid and racial segregation, imprisoning children and abusing them, stealing people's homes and burning down their villages, using genocidal hate speech, blowing up hospitals one by one etc the amount of people talking about Israel in a negative way will decrease. Instead lawyers spend their time working on getting Israel represented in minor sports competitions and war criminals off the hook and Israel announces it's going to be spending $150million on hasbara focusing on US college campuses and social media campaigns.

I think some people cannot see or do not want to see that what is happening in Gaza and the criticism of the Israel government/Idf are linked.
Like you, I have also read that they are going to spend even more on propaganda. They must be very concerned to do this.