Slovenia Demands Israel's Removal From Eurovision 2025

Incidentally: Greta can sleep on my couch any day if she needs a place to stay!

I used to be very sceptical of her when she was a mere teen speaking at WEF and when her video clip was in my corporate training materials!

I started to take her seriously when she started to connect climate change, Sahrawis, Kurds, capitalism, and, yes, Palestinians!

Good on her! Greta is based!

because you expect pro Palestinian groups to create violent disorder, you don’t want a singer representing a country that was the victim of one of the worlds worse terrorist atrocities, who was also a victim herself, taking part in it.

Israel is not a victim, though! Israel is a violent, oppressive regime and has been since ... before its official declaration of independence, actually! See "Plan Dalet"!

And, yes, the singer herself is arguably a victim. But the state of Israel is not! And, yes, deliberately picking a "woe me!" representative is a deliberate propaganda move! The notion that Israel treats the ESC as a propaganda vehicle should be pretty uncontroversial given that last year their president personally intervened to have them change the lyrics that were not accepted because they were too political

You’re worried about the children of your middle class friends, and your friends being involved in that public disorder? Maybe you should advise them not to get involved in public disorder?

Yeah, sorry not sorry, I am a lot more invested in protected freedom of expression than in the public relations campaign of some rogue state! Shutting up is, literally, the last thing anyone should do in the face of state repression! That way, authoritarianism lies!

You call that "public disorder" - there is not a single documented case of a protest getting out of hand around here (except: when the police started it!).

I personally fucking hated COVID protesters - and yet I always argued against state repression against them! There was that moment when I was genuinely looking around for an emergency exit as a huge police cordon was bearing down on a protest right in front of the bar in which I happened to be sitting. But that still did not make me think "yeah, actually, the state literally beating the crap out of its citizens - even if their demands are stupid as per my own take - sounds like a bloody grand idea!"

Shutting up is literally the worst possible response to repression! I swear, if pro-Israel protests received anything like this level of repression, I might actually feel tempted tp turn up to one - holding a sign saying "I actually think Israel is a horrible regime - but I remain fundamentally opposed to state repression. So ... freedom of expression for Israel supporters!"

Greta Thunberg and her crew will be turning up there no doubt. Since she's now jumped on the pro Pal bandwagon.

Can’t believe what I’m reading on here and that’s saying something.

So @SomeWomanSomewhere because you expect pro Palestinian groups to create violent disorder, you don’t want a singer representing a country that was the victim of one of the worlds worse terrorist atrocities, who was also a victim herself, taking part in it.

Did I get that right? You seem to think of public disorder is inevitable and it will all be Israel’s fault, as if the people who engage in it can’t responsible for their own actions?

You’re worried about the children of your middle class friends, and your friends being involved in that public disorder?

Maybe you should advise them not to get involved in public disorder?

Would you welcome an entry from a Palestinian representative from outside of Gaza (plenty of Palestinians in Europe) entering on Gaza’s behalf? Would you insist they should be banned if Israel kicked up a stink about it, and think it inevitable, and the Palestinians fault, if a load of Jewish people created public disorder in protest?

You think Israel entering is ‘propaganda’ even though they’ve competed almost every year since 1973?

Don’t singers usually sing about topics personal to them? I should imagine escaping near death at the hands of barbaric terrorists and having to hide under dead bodies for 8 hours is pretty personal to the Israeli entry.

The comparison to Russia doesn’t really wash as Russia invaded a sovereign country in an act of aggression. Israel responded to an invasion.

Christ yes I know toy weren't being sarcastic. I was being sarcastic. I wish I hadn't bothered now.

How am I twisting your words? I mentioned with in the (sarcasric) comment you were responding to.

You're welcome to demonstrate on behalf of Russian participation. In the interests of fairness of course.

btw there are some who remember poll tax demonstrations and miners strike pickets who may have seen a slightly less laissez faire attitude from our boys in blue. But I digress...back to eurovision.

Yeah no shit. And do you also think I genuinely believe victims or terrorists attacks shouldn't be able to enter?

I am advocating for "treat Russia like Israel - and vice versa!" - either your head of government being an internationally wanted war criminal gets you excluded or it does not!

As for "trust in policing"? The police can always be trusted to "maintain public order" of course. As in "align with power and arrest and rubber bullet and water cannon dissenters". Sorry if I don[t want that for my friends and neighbours over "but Israel has a right to do propaganda ...". Brits (I am one, for the record) have a seriously naive take on policing because we all grew up with the friendly neighbourhood bobby idea. Police elsewhere will beat the crap out of you and that will be considred normal.

I think your sarcasm meter is broken.

I'm sure we all deserve better one way or another, but you suggest the Swiss police will be effective at maintaining public order.
Are you advocating for Russia to compete? I didn't think they liked Europe enough to join in.

Sorry what?

I shall assume you desperately want Russia to compete?! Only a music concert, right?!

If not: What sort of people want to disrupt a music concert? How about "a state, fledgleding, loosing public support - banking on 'but they bullied a girl, a victim!'?!" - hoping and banking on "maximum controversy"?

Do that ... but not in my hometown!

I HATE how this is pitting neighbour against neighbour!

Again, Israel, if you cannot be excluded: please field "David X" with "Party, Party, Party!" - do NOT politicise this hoping that it will create a stir. It will. But we fucking LIVE HERE! And we deserve better!

It's a music concert, what sort of people want to disrupt a music concert?

There is a significant difference between "someone who experienced something horrible speaking about it" [totally acceptable, even welcome!] and "a state engaged in an openly eliminatory campaign of violence instrumentalising the former for PR in an ostensibly non-political forum" [I reject that, categorically!].

Again, as a local resident: tell me why I should put up with what this will do to my local community? I am looking to get out "on a holiday" for the time - as are so many of my friends and neighbours.

But this is not fair on us! We fucking live here!

I might feel differently if Palestinians were also in the ESC (they are not!) but: how is it okay that I feel I need to flee from my own home over "Israel wants to do propaganda - and this is going to get ugly?!"

ETA: I would be TOTALLY fine with the same singer and the same song with the same text performing locally. I resent the "this is a state thing now - and expect several friends to be arrested and bludgeoned by the police!".

There is ONE WHOLE WORLD of difference between the two!

People making trouble at a music concert because 'Israel provoked them'......who was it that said history doesn't repeat itself but it rhymes?

In case this is addressed to me, I can predict this one pretty clearly:

• Pro-Palestine people will stage massive protests and draw crowds from all over Europe
• Police brutality will be off the charts (this is not particularly subject specific - if you happen to be used to British policing standards: German speaking world policing will leave you fucking speechless!)
• Someone will inevitably spray "dismantle israel" onto a railway car or something.
• Israeli ambassador/government/lobbyists will be all "woe us! - why are they bullying an innocent young girl?"
• People will get arrested - there will be massive legal pushback!
• Everyone will be angrier after all is said and done!

In other words and in answer to your question: Israel by deliberately provoking. Protesters by the inevitable few breaching whatever the powers that be deem "acceptable". The state by once again brutally cracking down - and alienating nice bourgeois people in their 40s over their kids getting arrested - again!

Literally everyone!

Yes how dare a victim of a terror attack be allowed to enter a si ging competition that has absolutely never been about politics.

Who do you think is most likely to cause trouble?

I have no degree in EngLit - but I live here!

Look, the whole "the singer is a Nova survivor", the title, the Hebrew verse which might or might not [I shall operate under the assumption that the ambiguity is strategic?] make reference to 7 Oct ...

Again .. WHY did they have to do this?

WHY could they not have fielded some rando with "All the Cute Boys Love Other Girls" or whatnot?

As a local resident: I resent this shit! Also: currently evaluating "where to go on a totally random holiday while all of this goes down". We genuinely deserved better here than to be made an ideological battle ground for Israeli PR!

I do resent that!

Honi soit indeed! We did not ask for this here!

People have made an oblique connection to the so-called 'Al-Aqsa flood' and the apparent extract from the Song of Solomon about love being stronger than a flood.

An english lit. student might tell you, you can make connections to texts and back up your arguments, but only the author knows their true intent.

Honi soit qui mal y pense & all that.