Slovenia Demands Israel's Removal From Eurovision 2025

“No other nation has responded to a terrorist attack in this way.” Really? Afghanistan after 9/11? Iraq on the flimsiest of evidence? At least try to do research before you reply.

I don’t say people on Mumsnet support Hamas or Hezbollah. Again, at least read the comment properly before you reply.

And no one wants to see anyone hurt in a conflict, let alone children. But no one wants to see barbaric, inhuman attacks on people in kibbutzes and at a festival either.

And it is antisemitism if you judge Israel by different standards than other countries.

Israel is condemned for doing what any other nation would do under the circumstances.
No other nation has responded to a terrorist attack in this way.
Britain did not kill the entire populations equivalent to the combined populations of Armagh, Dungannon and Enniskillen.
The civilian casualty rates in Gaza are unprecedented and even more bombs have been dropped than were dropped on Dresden, London and Hamburg combined, on a tiny enclave, with many sheltering in tents and using bottled gas to cook.
casual antisemitism
You should not weaponise antisemitism to defend this barbarism.
witless fools in the west line up to support Hamas, Hezbollah and the like
Dates , times and threads please. I follow several of these the threads on this board and have yet to see support for Hamas or Hezbollah.
Have you looked at the figures for child amputees? Do you think that this is normal?

I think the fact that so many posters have left this board tells its own story.

Yet again Israel is condemned for doing what any other nation would do under the circumstances. Why doesn’t Hamas release the hostages? Because they don’t care about their own citizens dying and suffering. Why did they launch an attack on Israel while knowing the probable consequences? Again because they don’t care about Palestinians. And yet the witless fools in the west line up to support Hamas, Hezbollah and the like - one of the most repressive regimes on Earth. It beggars belief.

I’m sick of the casual antisemitism so many people on Mumsnet trundle out. They seemingly don’t care about what’s happening in countless other global conflicts. It’s the old saw of “no Jews = no news”. I’m not Jewish but I can’t imagine what it’s like to have to read the rubbish spouted about Israel.

And what about everything before that from Israel towards Palestine?

It is a fact that Hamas willingly started the war on 7 October 2023.

Israel is still trying to get the kids (and others) back who were taken and held by terrorists.

Having the UN side with the terrorists hasn't stopped the search and rescue so I doubt that being excluded from a song contest would.

"Their leaders have been charged with crimes against humanity. That should be enough to bar them"

Well I'm in the UK where we don't consider an accusation to be proof of guilt.

A bit old fashioned I know, but I'm going to stick with it since we made quite an effort in this country to be as enlightened and as civilised as we could and it would be a shame to abandon it too quickly and sink to the level accepted elsewhere.

On a personal note if I am ever kidnapped I expect my government to do whatever it takes to rescue me and no matter how many terrorists and sympathisers they have to kill in the process. Even if I am killed in the process that's better than being abandoned.

If I'm beaten and abused and stuck down a hole somewhere I want and expect to hear bombs dropping and my terrified captors running for their lives.

I really hope they are removed, but the genocide will still continue

Both nations have arrest warrants out for their leaders for war crimes, so not so different.

I think the argument that Israel couldn't possibly be committing genocide because Jewish people were previously subject to a genocide is a particularly weak and frankly illogical point. I've heard Netanyahu make it too.

There is concern that under the current narrow interpretation of genocide no crimes against humanity could amount to genocide if they take place within an existing armed conflict. You are suggesting it's antisemitic to want to include such cases. That was the dangerous disinformation I alluded to.

The good old arguments "They started it" and they made us do it".

@Whatsinanamehey touche!

I don't know why some of you are just more comfortable calling it mass slaughter or whatever but regardless, israel most certainly should not be allowed to compete.

And the Lemkin institute for the prevention of genocide have said many times that israels aggression in Gaza constitutes as genocide

https://www.lemkininstitute.com/statements-new-page/statement-on-why-we-call-the-israeli-attack-on-gaza-genocide

The term “Genocide” was coined by Polish-Jewish lawyer Raphael Lemkin after the holocaust as there wasn’t a word for wanting to murder a whole people for no reason other than hate. Therefore, to accuse Israel of Genocide is particularly egregious.

You might not care what it is called but words do matter, especially since South Africa has taken Israel to the ICJ on the accusation of Genocide and when Ireland a year later has sought to broaden the intent requirement. It is a bizarre move by Ireland as by seeking to broaden the requirement, essentially indicates they don’t think Israel is committing Genocide as the law and interpretations stand.

Do feel free to point out any areas of disinformation in my post. There aren’t any.

You can have empathy and compassion for innocent Palestinians suffering without being blinded to blame the victims of what started this.

It was Hamas who acted with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, Jews/Israelis as a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group.

100% this!

the gaslighting is really extreme at times.

Apartheid exists in Israel - please do your research.

no matter how many times certain individuals will claim "it's not genocide" we see through this, as do all the different organisations and bodies ICJ etc etc.

Stating it's "not genocide" does not make it true.

Incorrect. You need to do some reading on the subject to stop yourself spouting harmful disinformation.

Personally I don't care what it's called. Killing tens of thousands of people, displacing millions, destroying any chance of them receiving medical care, basic aid, education, shelter...it's either crimes against humanity or genocide. The name isn't that important. It's evil and barbaric either way.

No it is not technically Genocide, if it cannot meet the criteria of Genocide.

Genocide is not a word we throw around because of our feelings. It isn't something we use to wantonly label a war not started by the party you are accusing.

Genocide has a meaning. It's an act with the INTENT to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group through such acts as enumerated as a-e of Art. II of the Genocide Convention.

That verbiage matters as it means the party accused of committing genocide must intend to actually destroy, in whole or in part, a protected group. This is known as a dolus specialis, or special intent. As a standard for mens rea it is quite difficult to meet as you must prove the party's intent. You cannot do that here.

Amnesty and Ireland both know this. This is why they both detailed a broadening of the intent requirement. The reason why all of this delves into antisemitism is because people are creating new standards of law to apply solely to the Jewish state and no one else.

What Ireland’s action (in seeking to broaden the intent requirement) does highlight however, is that under the current definition of Genocide along with the interpretations from precedents, Israel is NOT committing Genocide.

And we should stop selling them weapons!

Slovenia are right.

Israel is probably carrying out what is technically genocide and if it doesn’t meet the technical definition of genocide, it is just a matter of semantics or a debatable point of law. Israel should not take part in the Eurovision, but they got away with it last year by cashing in on the outrage about the recent terrorist attack. Who couldn’t feel sympathy for a country that had suffered so much after all?
The Israeli government denies that it’s deliberately targeting civilians. But if you knocked down your neighbours child as you rushed to the hospital with your own sick relative , you would still be expected to stop and help the child. You would be expected to apologise and pay compensation. If the child died, you wouldn’t go to a glitzy talent contest that night, if you really hadn’t meant to kill that neighbour’s kid.Yet here we have 11,000 children killed and not a word of apology, not a black arm band, not a minute of silence. Just the weaponising of anti-semitism should anyone suggest that this is not normal. And the dancing Israeli’s will keep dancing joyfully

The Prime Minister has been charged with war crimes so yes they should be removed.