The brutal truth of the war in Gaza.

@SharonEllis - fair comment actually - you weren't really driving that part of the disussion. Sorry.

Why are you directing this question at me?

But, like many others you're no longer naive and that is a positive change.

I fully understand, it's nearly a year since the South African ICJ case and the institutions that we were supposed to be able to rely on to uphold justice utterly failed. It's gut wrenching.

However, the powers that be (including Governments and the MSM) expended so much of their propaganda arsenal looking the other way and silencing dissent that many people can no longer be misled.

For example, the American TikTok ban was ushered through mainly because TikTok was too pro Palestinian (hoping to push users to more controlled social media spaces). Well the American TikTok users have said "no", this week they've downloaded a Chinese social media app and are learning Chinese to communicate directly with Chinese users. The general gist seems to be "they're just like us, remind me why we're meant to hate them" and lots of pictures of cats!.
https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1879392840561885258

As a Spanish person im quite disappointed. Spainish government could have done much much more. I’m quite disappointed with pedro Sanchez(labour) and a reason why I’d never vote for him or sumar (the other one they’re in the government with).
listening to ione belarra and irene montero in EU chambers ,from podemos , criticising the fake politicians is music to my ears and I’m neither a podemos voter. If Spain has done something is because podemos not because of the government in place (they need podemos to get the local laws so podemos has used this in their advantage tho it’s not been enough)

Absolutely. The only positive of this "war" is that millions have finally learnt of the plight of the Palestinians throughout the decades.
On a personal note, I have had my beliefs in western governments totally crushed (except Spain and Ireland). They only care for geopolitics, money and power. I was so naïve.

So why does the lack of palestinian "history" matter so much?

Absolutely, great book with references and evidence, here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Palestine-Four-Thousand-Year-History/dp/1786992728

Let's thank the people who over the last 15 months kept saying that there is no such this as a Country called Palestine or Palestinians. They've spurred millions of ordinary people around the World to educate themselves on evidenced history. Countering that propaganda has elevated the Palestinian cause 100 fold. Kind of like an own goal......

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Palestine-Four-Thousand-Year-History/dp/1786992728

Why is this directed at me? How many times do I have to say I believe in a 2 state solution which by definition means a Palestinian state?

I haven't put words in your mouth. I asked a question. Many times, when people talk about rights to live in Judea and Samaria, they are talking about the West Bank and saying that Israel has a greater right to it, in their opinion, than the Palestinians currently living there (under occupation). This is a commonly encountered viewpoint, sadly. Glad to hear you don't share it with those people.

Palestine was a region encompassing a couple of countries. There were Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs.
The concept of Palestine as a separate state or country did not exist until fairly recently.
This is not erasure. This is history.
Firstly, I never said it was a country/state. Secondly, archaeological evidence has shown that this land was inhabited as far back as the Bronze Age. As a region. Palestine has exited for millennia.
https://www.ourhistory.org.uk/the-history-of-palestine/
https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/judaea/gaza/t.html

The lack of knowledge of people spouting pro-Palestinian anti-Israeli and yet not really knowing anything about it shows the power of Hamas propoganda. Millions well spent.
The total omission of a huge chunk of the history of Palestine and then the assumption that if you are in favour of a Palestinian (which I am) state, you must be anti Israel shows the power of the Hasbara. After all. the Israeli government has invested enormous amount of money in their propaganda machine.
By the way, what is Hamas propaganda?

The lack of knowledge of people spouting pro-Palestinian anti-Israeli and yet not really knowing anything about it shows the power of Hamas propoganda. Millions well spent.
I don't need a history lesson to recognise the "brutal truth of the war in Gaza". People aren't anti Israel btw.

What then was the point of your post? It's not clear what you were getting at. You made the point that Israel needed to be created as homeland for Jewish people which is clear and very much understood but I'm more unclear what the relevance of Arafat being born in Egypt is?

I think the argument of whether "Palestine" was a place or not is a spurious one. The inhabitants had lived there, often for centuries or generations, tended the land and had historic ties to the area. The fact that the borders were often in flux due to geopolitical factors well outside their control doesn't diminish their ties. They didn't "wander in" - they were long-established communities who had made it their home for generations.

@SharonEllis what are you suggesting their perceived lack of historic identity means for their future? Does it mean you think they have no right to a state? That they can be moved to other neighbouring countries with impunity? That they've lost their right to any of that land in response to a holocaust not of their making? Or that Gaza and the West Bank should just be absorbed into Israel where they live as second-class citizens? What would you like to see happen to them?

Sounds a lot like erasure in the context of the current genocide. Maybe you didn't realise that this kind of talk can sound extremely sinister in the current context so I'm just letting you know.

Its very clear that was not what you were saying.

No, I haven't suggested that and I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.

Palestine was a region encompassing a couple of countries. There were Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs.
The concept of Palestine as a separate state or country did not exist until fairly recently.
This is not erasure. This is history.

The lack of knowledge of people spouting pro-Palestinian anti-Israeli and yet not really knowing anything about it shows the power of Hamas propoganda. Millions well spent.

These rules are being ignored and children are suffering, because people choose to allow them to suffer.
Agree with this, it's a choice

That was the point the poster was trying to make. It doesn't, and Arafat being born in Egypt does not diminish his identification with Palestine

Maybe take a look at the children recovering from having their limbs torn off in explosions... Maybe think about how you would want your own children to be treated in such circumstances. Because these are children just like our children, who did not vote for or support or work for Hamas. The international rules of war, international humanitarian law is intended to minimise the numbers of children and other innocents who become casualties through no fault of their own. These rules are being ignored and children are suffering, because people choose to allow them to suffer.

Just to remind people.

But you know very well that does not diminish his father's identification with the state of Israel, as a Jewish person.

This erasure of Palestine and Palestinians is disgusting.

If Palestine never existed, why were coins minted, baring the name Palestine?
https://academic.oup.com/book/40318/chapter-abstract/346875488?redirectedFrom=fulltext