Can anyone help me undestand who we want to win in Syria?

Feel quite sick about whats going to happen to minorities there. Jolani has stated they expect the HTS and SNA rebels to be tolerant but so far the exact opposite has been happening. Think he’s lying through his teeth.

Apparently 30’000 iraqi shia militants have entered Syria. Great.

Already read that some kurds have been beheaded by the SNA. Fucking miserable, these people are disgusting.

Distressingly, I've also seen footage of young Kurdish women being kidnapped.

Try forming your own opinion.

Its absolutely horrific. I'm devastated that its all picking up again & it does seem so complicated given the wider geopolitical context. Syrian civilians have been through so much.

Back to the point Op I don’t think you can pick a side, I’m most worried for minorities at this point though. I think theres a genuine threat of ethnic cleansing on the horizon and Islamist style, so beheadings and torture.

Already read that some kurds have been beheaded by the SNA. Fucking miserable, these people are disgusting.

What are you talking about? I already did challenge the poster. Where did I say everyone thinks the same? But there are patterns of group think. Really your personal attacks are getting very tedious.

The narrative that minimises and excuses Israel's crimes against humanity is also driven by hatred and is on full display here.

Upthread:
'I think Assad struggles to measure up to the crimes of the Israeli administration'.
Quote and challenge the poster we are all individuals here so stop assuming we all think and post the same

Yes, the narrative that exceptionalises & amplifies the faults of Israel out of all proportion to reality & context is driven by hatred and is accepted by all authorities on antisemitism as one of the cornerstones of antisemitism.
Who is deciding if it is out of all proportion to reality & context, You?

Sweeping generalisations just annoy me because it is a tool for delegitimising all posters with a different opinion to you

I think it's just best to accept there is no winning at all. There never is in any war.

Upthread:
'I think Assad struggles to measure up to the crimes of the Israeli administration'.

I refer you to my earlier summary of the crimes of Assad.

Yes, the narrative that exceptionalises & amplifies the faults of Israel out of all proportion to reality & context is driven by hatred and is accepted by all authorities on antisemitism as one of the cornerstones of antisemitism.

The main external actors here are Turkey, Iran and Russia. Israel is only tangentially involved.

It feels like posters are trying to suggest Israel is a major player and they really aren’t here. They are not purposefully engaging with anyone who doesn’t pose a direct threat to them, hell according to pp they are actually trying to help the Druze there.

I imagine they will align with the kurds at some point and offer them aid in some way, which would be nice given that the western world is doing their best to ignore their obligations to the Kurds which is utterly fucking shameful imo.

This is why I pull people up on ridiculous unfactual claims that essentially amount to Israel being the worst regime in history when that just is not rational. It leads to crazy conclusions like Israel is a worse regime than Assad.
What kind of claims are you making here about posters? Stop putting words in peoples mouths, no one, as far as I can see, has said or implied that Israel are the worst regime in history or worse than Assad. But don't forget they have right wing extreme racist ministers spouting pretty horrific things and also a Prime Minister that has an arrest warrant out for him for crimes against humanity, they are facts and they are the facts that people judge the current Israeli government by. I am not sure why you would claim that that judgement is based on hate rather than the actions of the current Israeli government? Yes pull people up on unfactual claims but you also tend to try and minimise the reality of what is happening too.

@Scirocco

"The removal of Assad's regime in itself would be cause for a lot of celebration around the world. It's the 'how' and 'what next' questions that are a bit more complicated."

Unfortunately it's was exactly that approach that created the mess that Libya is now in.

Yes Assad 's regime is a dictatorship but remove him and it will create a protracted civil war involving extremist islamists with their origins in Al Queda where very large numbers of innocent people will get killed.

So yes Assad is a dictator but the people of Syria would much rather have peace, stability and security every time over regime change.

I think Assad struggles to measure up to the crimes of the Israeli administration, so having the Israelis act as arbiters of justice isn't reassuring

I mean he killed far, far more people, including with chemicals weapons, but he's, what? Not Jewish so that makes it better?

The reasons they are involved (essentially containing Hezbollah), when there is already someone on this thread suggesting that Israel is worse than Assad & collaborating with the US to engineer regime change is is quite a significant nuance.

I never said whether it was right or wrong I merely pointed out that they are involved, so no need for such a sarcastic response

Agree. The two are related though. This is why I pull people up on ridiculous unfactual claims that essentially amount to Israel being the worst regime in history when that just is not rational. It leads to crazy conclusions like Israel is a worse regime than Assad. And it is all driven by hate.

I am going to be intrigued to see the horrendously tenuous argument trying to link Israel with Syria to effectively blame Israel for the forthcoming conflict here as if it some sort of covert expansion of Israeli military action. Maybe those Russian jets are piloted by the IDF?

I don't know the intricacies of it all but trying to replace a dictatorship with a militant religious group isn't going to end well, is it?

Most people think this??

No they don't. A few over-excited students maybe.

The middle East is an extremely complex tinderkeg of differing military and political factions. This is why I have always been concerned about simplistic black/white divides in reporting or commenting on conflict.

If people are marching in London calling out Assads truly despicable regime I would support that but it doesn't happen and probably will not happen over the next few months.

This board never fails to disappoint.

What concerns me more is seeing the hatred spilling out onto the streets of the UK, there should be no place for it.

Well exactly.

Even on this board I didn't expect to see someone claiming Israel was worse than Assad. Syria is a one-party dictatorship coming out on various indices regularly as one of the worst regimes in the world. Even before the war. He has killed half a million of his own people. 145,000 people missing. He has created around 4.8 million Syrian refugees, 6.3 million internally displaced, and 13.5 million needing aid. Summary executions, widespread torture & imprisonment without trial, forced disappearances, rape, he's attacked his own people with chemical weapons.

He’s killed half a million Syrians!!

Feel for Syrians, they are stuck between Turkish backed jihadis, Syrian jihadis and Assad. Kurds are the only force there who seemingly aren’t trying to murder everyone.