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Conflict in the Middle East
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Limesodaagain · 18/11/2024 08:46

Dulra · 18/11/2024 08:39

Mass illegal immigration is the issue. What people see is mainly young men rocking up in boats, given a warm hotel room, meals & allowances
You do know that illegal immigrants don't get any state support obviously. Asylum seekers do while they are waiting for their application to be processed. I think this kind of misinformation doesn't help things and again is about incitement to hate. Well done

I don’t think that post was in any way an “incitement to hate” or spreading misinformation. It was a description of the way many people feel.

Your response is the sort of overblown reaction that makes dialogue impossible and ultimately results in a much bigger societal conflict. You can’t shut down genuine concerns. You have to address them or feelings become more extreme.

Nordione1 · 18/11/2024 08:44

My concern is sharia law. Currently the majority in this country don't advocate for sharia law but if the demographic changes significantly this may change. That would be perfectly democratic if the majority wanted it of course. But it's hardly something I would look forward to. I think people are concerned that many or most Muslims would support sharia law in the UK however and that perception might explain why some consider them a threat.

This is not a perception that I had growing up when I had many Muslim friends who behaved just the same way as anyone else re drinking, attitudes re sex etc so something has changed. The perception has changed in the last twenty years. It may be that the Islamist voice is louder now.

Usernamesareboring1 · 18/11/2024 08:43

ACynicalDad · 18/11/2024 08:37

Ultimately migrants need to largely assimilate with the host community. Whilst many Muslims have there are areas that have almost been turned into Muslim ghettos and are electing MPs based on Muslim interests rather than the national ones. We can keep a liberal mindset on this and ignore it and in time it will bubble over or our politicians can address it. Not sure how, that’s not my job, but no point denying it and kicking the can down the road, it is an issue that will only get bigger.

Which Muslim interests are you referring to? And which MPs?

rewilded · 18/11/2024 08:41

ACynicalDad · 18/11/2024 08:37

Ultimately migrants need to largely assimilate with the host community. Whilst many Muslims have there are areas that have almost been turned into Muslim ghettos and are electing MPs based on Muslim interests rather than the national ones. We can keep a liberal mindset on this and ignore it and in time it will bubble over or our politicians can address it. Not sure how, that’s not my job, but no point denying it and kicking the can down the road, it is an issue that will only get bigger.

I am afraid I agree.

Limesodaagain · 18/11/2024 08:41

Duc · 18/11/2024 00:46

Riots will always attract idiots and I agree many will be racists however there has been so much mass immigration in such a short space of time that tensions have been bubbling over within mainstream society for the last couple of years or so and of course the thugs use that concern to start trouble and riots.

There has been talk about many Albanians arriving here on the boats and I’m not aware that they’re a majority Muslim population? Excuse my ignorance if that’s incorrect but mass immigration is the problem not certain religions is it not?

The governments should have planned for this population increase and then people wouldn’t be so frustrated. Decent people wouldn’t riot and fight in the street of course but I don't believe the majority of people have issues with a particular region. Thugs use any opportunity to kick off but that’s not how most people feel. Most people are respectful of others.

Edited

Immigration is obviously a concern and there needs to be a space to discuss the concerns without being called a racist etc.
It’s completely understandable that there are concerns about whether the infrastructure in particular areas can cope . Housing , jobs, school places, nhs appointments etc
But it does become an issue of racism when British people living here feel threatened and marginalised by the rhetoric surrounding immigration if it focuses on race and religion

Dulra · 18/11/2024 08:39

quantumbutterfly · 18/11/2024 08:34

Mass illegal immigration is the issue. What people see is mainly young men rocking up in boats, given a warm hotel room, meals & allowances and hanging around outside or disappearing into the untaxed/criminal economy. They also see it has been going on for twenty years but only hit the news cycle recently.

They see young men lying about their age and being put into schools and foster families. They see a culture clash. Not everyone has the resource to deal with this, so they are labelled bigots (thanks Gordon Brown) or racists (thanks Emily Thornberry) to silence them by the people who claim to serve their interests but are really only serving their own.

Mass illegal immigration is the issue. What people see is mainly young men rocking up in boats, given a warm hotel room, meals & allowances
You do know that illegal immigrants don't get any state support obviously. Asylum seekers do while they are waiting for their application to be processed. I think this kind of misinformation doesn't help things and again is about incitement to hate. Well done

Moonlightstars · 18/11/2024 08:37

hattie43 · 18/11/2024 08:24

This .
People goading others on here to say what they really think knowing full well they aren't allowed to .

Do you mean you want to be racist and get told not to be racist?
Do you think Muslim people aren't British? I'm less British than many of my Muslim friends. I am only one generation away from not being British (1) but I am conveniently white so you cant tell.

ACynicalDad · 18/11/2024 08:37

Ultimately migrants need to largely assimilate with the host community. Whilst many Muslims have there are areas that have almost been turned into Muslim ghettos and are electing MPs based on Muslim interests rather than the national ones. We can keep a liberal mindset on this and ignore it and in time it will bubble over or our politicians can address it. Not sure how, that’s not my job, but no point denying it and kicking the can down the road, it is an issue that will only get bigger.

EmmaMaria · 18/11/2024 08:37

Applepie321 · 18/11/2024 03:41

OP and PPs Id be interested to know if you live in a city/ town with a high Muslim population?

Growing up in Bradford (or ‘Bradistan’ as people call it), I can tell you that a lot of division is self imposed. Often they build their own communities and will not integrate or often even speak with non-muslims.

I have literally never heard anyone refer to Bradford as Bradistan - you must be mixing with racists the wrong people. Nor have I ever met a Muslim who won't speak to non-Muslims. It'd be kind of hard to live a life like that anywhere in the world. But all communities build for themselves. Churches are for Christians, temples for Hindus and Sikhs, synagogues for Jews....That doesn't mean that they won't or can't "integrate" - integration is not something that only one set of people do by becoming just like another. It is about sharing our commonalities and differences and learning to live together, seeing the strengths and weaknesses we all share, and building better futures for everyone.

SallyWD · 18/11/2024 08:36

hattie43 · 18/11/2024 08:24

This .
People goading others on here to say what they really think knowing full well they aren't allowed to .

I keep hearing that people "aren't allowed" to say things, yet every time I go on X, I see the most vile and hateful statements about Muslims. Yesterday, I saw a post from Laurence Fox. I can't remember the exact words, but you can look it up if you wish. He was using words about Islam such as "child raping", "death cult" "force the women to put a bag over their heads" "pernicious evil", and he described any areas where Muslims live as "shit holes".
Yet people are being silenced, are they?? It's absolute nonsense.
Spend ten minutes on X or even Facebook sometimes, and you'll easily find the most offensive and hideous Islamaphobia.
I've no time for people who claim they aren't allowed to speak out.

quantumbutterfly · 18/11/2024 08:34

Duc · 18/11/2024 00:46

Riots will always attract idiots and I agree many will be racists however there has been so much mass immigration in such a short space of time that tensions have been bubbling over within mainstream society for the last couple of years or so and of course the thugs use that concern to start trouble and riots.

There has been talk about many Albanians arriving here on the boats and I’m not aware that they’re a majority Muslim population? Excuse my ignorance if that’s incorrect but mass immigration is the problem not certain religions is it not?

The governments should have planned for this population increase and then people wouldn’t be so frustrated. Decent people wouldn’t riot and fight in the street of course but I don't believe the majority of people have issues with a particular region. Thugs use any opportunity to kick off but that’s not how most people feel. Most people are respectful of others.

Edited

Mass illegal immigration is the issue. What people see is mainly young men rocking up in boats, given a warm hotel room, meals & allowances and hanging around outside or disappearing into the untaxed/criminal economy. They also see it has been going on for twenty years but only hit the news cycle recently.

They see young men lying about their age and being put into schools and foster families. They see a culture clash. Not everyone has the resource to deal with this, so they are labelled bigots (thanks Gordon Brown) or racists (thanks Emily Thornberry) to silence them by the people who claim to serve their interests but are really only serving their own.

Charley50 · 18/11/2024 08:33

This article is all about pushing the agenda of making it illegal to criticise Islam, and the behaviour of Islamists. When I say Islamists I mean people who push for Sharia law, and promote antisemitism and extreme misogyny in mosques and on the streets..This country has bent over backwards for Muslims (we have only halal meat in many workplaces and schools, prayers rooms, Xmas reduced to a 'winter festival' at my workplace,l) but for people with an agenda it is not enough.

Moonlightstars · 18/11/2024 08:33

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Why is it aggressive? I love next door to an Islamic centre and even the parking is polite.

Scirocco · 18/11/2024 08:32

Auvergne63 · 18/11/2024 08:31

And yes, taking over large public spaces to pray, is about marking your territory
Animals mark their territory. Do you realise how offensive this sentence is?

I suspect they do.

I also suspect sone people haven't even read the article, let alone the report.

OP posts:
Auvergne63 · 18/11/2024 08:31

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

And yes, taking over large public spaces to pray, is about marking your territory
Animals mark their territory. Do you realise how offensive this sentence is?

Scirocco · 18/11/2024 08:30

spottedinthewilds · 18/11/2024 08:16

The problem is that people aren't able to discuss this openly for fear of being called racist or gammon. It's not cool to think or talk about these things.

The British seem to be the only nation in the world that aren't openly allowed to be British.

This country is a mess!!

Are you suggesting someone can't be British and Muslim? Last time I checked my passport it was a British one. The majority of people affected by Islamophobia in Britain are British.

OP posts:
Dulra · 18/11/2024 08:29

hattie43 · 18/11/2024 08:24

This .
People goading others on here to say what they really think knowing full well they aren't allowed to .

This .
People goading others on here to say what they really think knowing full well they aren't allowed to .
Who is goading people to say what they really think? what does that even mean?

Ellmau · 18/11/2024 08:28

There has been talk about many Albanians arriving here on the boats and I’m not aware that they’re a majority Muslim population? Excuse my ignorance if that’s incorrect

Yes, it is actually: Islam in Albania - Wikipedia

Islam in Albania - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Albania

Dulra · 18/11/2024 08:27

SallyWD · 18/11/2024 08:24

What does that mean "The British seem to be the only nation in the world that aren't openly allowed to be British."
I can't make any sense of this.
Last time I checked, I was allowed to be British.

It is fear mongering with the intent to inflame and create a them and us mentality, obviously does zero to support cohesion. It is absolute nonsense but unfortunately people believe it. My in laws live in a part of England that where the vast majority are white English, but they still believe they are under threat some how.

Scirocco · 18/11/2024 08:27

SallyWD · 18/11/2024 08:17

Antisemitism is a real and present danger, yes, but not more real than Islamaphobia. I read a government report that said that Muslims are the second most targeted/discriminated group in the UK. The most discriminated group is Romany gypsies. Muslims are second, above Jewish people.
All types of discrimination need to be taken very seriously.

Thank you. All forms of racism and religiously motivated hate crimes should be unacceptable and not tolerated in society, and the Runnymede Trust report highlights that hate crimes against Muslims remain widespread.

And it's not about people wanting to have reasoned debates about things like immigration, secularity vs freedom of expression, etc. It's about violent assaults, sexual assault, verbal abuse, violence against children, death threats and more. It's about the discrimination faced in daily life, from refusals of service in shops to exclusion at work. It's about a widespread hatred, and action stemming from that hatred, of a group of people because of their faith or perceived faith. And it's about what that says about a country, for that to be so acceptable.

OP posts:
Usernamesareboring1 · 18/11/2024 08:25

spottedinthewilds · 18/11/2024 08:16

The problem is that people aren't able to discuss this openly for fear of being called racist or gammon. It's not cool to think or talk about these things.

The British seem to be the only nation in the world that aren't openly allowed to be British.

This country is a mess!!

Are you saying Muslim and British are mutually exclusive? Is being Muslim the only religion people can't follow and be British ?

hattie43 · 18/11/2024 08:24

spottedinthewilds · 18/11/2024 08:16

The problem is that people aren't able to discuss this openly for fear of being called racist or gammon. It's not cool to think or talk about these things.

The British seem to be the only nation in the world that aren't openly allowed to be British.

This country is a mess!!

This .
People goading others on here to say what they really think knowing full well they aren't allowed to .

Usernamesareboring1 · 18/11/2024 08:24

Farmgoose · 18/11/2024 07:56

Are Muslims actually less safe in the UK than the average Muslim country?

I am sorry you feel unhappy about anti Islam sentiment but try not to conflate violent bigotry and racism with genuine concern about the growth of Islam in Europe.

Anti semitism is a far far more real and present danger.

It's not like we had Islamophobic race riots only a few months ago is it? 🙄

SallyWD · 18/11/2024 08:24

spottedinthewilds · 18/11/2024 08:16

The problem is that people aren't able to discuss this openly for fear of being called racist or gammon. It's not cool to think or talk about these things.

The British seem to be the only nation in the world that aren't openly allowed to be British.

This country is a mess!!

What does that mean "The British seem to be the only nation in the world that aren't openly allowed to be British."
I can't make any sense of this.
Last time I checked, I was allowed to be British.

SallyWD · 18/11/2024 08:17

Farmgoose · 18/11/2024 07:56

Are Muslims actually less safe in the UK than the average Muslim country?

I am sorry you feel unhappy about anti Islam sentiment but try not to conflate violent bigotry and racism with genuine concern about the growth of Islam in Europe.

Anti semitism is a far far more real and present danger.

Antisemitism is a real and present danger, yes, but not more real than Islamaphobia. I read a government report that said that Muslims are the second most targeted/discriminated group in the UK. The most discriminated group is Romany gypsies. Muslims are second, above Jewish people.
All types of discrimination need to be taken very seriously.