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Alltheprettyseahorses · 21/11/2024 18:09

Usernamesareboring1 · 21/11/2024 17:20

I don't see where OP is wrong there, do you agree with this being antisemitic?
-Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
Why then would accusing Muslims of being less loyal to the state not be Islamophobic?

Edited
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Unfortunately the thread has started turning into Swiss cheese so some relevant posts have gone. I mentioned MPs who stood on a platform focusing on Gaza at one point in the thread if the post is still there - some unsuccessful candidates did as well iirc. Not all were Muslim of course. That's what my post was relating to, following on from other posters earlier in the thread.

SallyWD · 21/11/2024 17:33

Dulra · 21/11/2024 17:16

That is not the same as what you said below, where does anyone mention Muslim extremists?

They are Muslim extremists though. But according to OP it's a hate crime to say so which rather trivialises the purported rise in islamaphobic hate crimes.

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Exactly, this has a completely different meaning.

Usernamesareboring1 · 21/11/2024 17:20

Alltheprettyseahorses · 21/11/2024 16:51

OP said:

"One issue is that for some Muslims loyalty to a pan global religious following is greater than loyalty to the state..." Are you aware, , that accusing a minority group of having more loyalty to an overarching organisation or another country is actually a form of hate crime in itself? Would you say this about any other minority group?

Just in case you missed the post.

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I don't see where OP is wrong there, do you agree with this being antisemitic?
-Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
Why then would accusing Muslims of being less loyal to the state not be Islamophobic?

username358 · 21/11/2024 17:18

quantumbutterfly · 21/11/2024 16:03

presumably an ex-hamas member who spent time in Israeli prison

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Everyone is Hamas aren't they? Babies in incubators, children at school, people in refugee camps, people coming for humanitarian aid, patients in hospital, thousands of women and children, the UN - all Hamas.

Dulra · 21/11/2024 17:16

Alltheprettyseahorses · 21/11/2024 16:51

OP said:

"One issue is that for some Muslims loyalty to a pan global religious following is greater than loyalty to the state..." Are you aware, , that accusing a minority group of having more loyalty to an overarching organisation or another country is actually a form of hate crime in itself? Would you say this about any other minority group?

Just in case you missed the post.

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That is not the same as what you said below, where does anyone mention Muslim extremists?

They are Muslim extremists though. But according to OP it's a hate crime to say so which rather trivialises the purported rise in islamaphobic hate crimes.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 21/11/2024 16:51

Dulra · 21/11/2024 14:17

I checked back they don't

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OP said:

"One issue is that for some Muslims loyalty to a pan global religious following is greater than loyalty to the state..." Are you aware, , that accusing a minority group of having more loyalty to an overarching organisation or another country is actually a form of hate crime in itself? Would you say this about any other minority group?

Just in case you missed the post.

quantumbutterfly · 21/11/2024 16:03

headstone · 21/11/2024 15:59

Israel are also known to kill family members too, who knows what physical or psychological torture is committed when a brutal occupier is looking for spies among its detainees.

presumably an ex-hamas member who spent time in Israeli prison

headstone · 21/11/2024 15:59

Israel are also known to kill family members too, who knows what physical or psychological torture is committed when a brutal occupier is looking for spies among its detainees.

quantumbutterfly · 21/11/2024 15:54

BelleHathor · 21/11/2024 15:48

Blackmail usually, especially Gay Palestinians the threat of "exposure" within the community.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/gay-palestinians-are-being-blackmailed-into-working-as-informants/

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Being gay would certainly be a death sentence for them.

BelleHathor · 21/11/2024 15:48

headstone · 21/11/2024 14:37

Regarding HassanYousef, he is a deeply troubled man. What does Isreal do to imprisoned Palestinians? How does it get them to spy for them? imagine there is a big ethical minefield there.

Blackmail usually, especially Gay Palestinians the threat of "exposure" within the community.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/gay-palestinians-are-being-blackmailed-into-working-as-informants/

Gay Palestinians Are Being Blackmailed Into Working As Informants

And threatened their sexuality will be revealed if they don't cooperate.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/gay-palestinians-are-being-blackmailed-into-working-as-informants

headstone · 21/11/2024 15:24

Yes quantumbutterfly that must be it, and all those men that were stripped naked and filmed being taken away in Gaza, I imagine they were just being told by the nice Israeli guards how awful Palestinian are.

quantumbutterfly · 21/11/2024 14:51

headstone · 21/11/2024 14:37

Regarding HassanYousef, he is a deeply troubled man. What does Isreal do to imprisoned Palestinians? How does it get them to spy for them? imagine there is a big ethical minefield there.

He claims to have been shocked at what hamas prisoners did to each other, some real horror stories.

headstone · 21/11/2024 14:37

Regarding HassanYousef, he is a deeply troubled man. What does Isreal do to imprisoned Palestinians? How does it get them to spy for them? imagine there is a big ethical minefield there.

Dulra · 21/11/2024 14:17

Alltheprettyseahorses · 21/11/2024 13:54

In a post dated 19/11/2024 08:21

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I checked back they don't

EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime · 21/11/2024 14:04

SallyWD · 21/11/2024 13:52

Nowhere near as bleak as it was under the Tories.

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Early days but not looking good.

Alltheprettyseahorses · 21/11/2024 13:54

Sunflowersinwinter · 21/11/2024 10:10

Really? Where did the OP say that?

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In a post dated 19/11/2024 08:21

SallyWD · 21/11/2024 13:52

EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime · 21/11/2024 13:50

Its very bleak under Labour, and set to worsen.

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Nowhere near as bleak as it was under the Tories.

EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime · 21/11/2024 13:50

localnotail · 21/11/2024 13:42

Because it was such a sunny Utopia under tories....EYE ROLL

Some people are trying so hard to shoehorn Labour bashing into every thread I start to think they are paid troll bots. Get over yourself. (Or find a better job).

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Its very bleak under Labour, and set to worsen.

localnotail · 21/11/2024 13:42

EverythingAllatOnceAllTheTime · 18/11/2024 06:27

The future for ALL of us is bleak and dystopian under Labour.

Because it was such a sunny Utopia under tories....EYE ROLL

Some people are trying so hard to shoehorn Labour bashing into every thread I start to think they are paid troll bots. Get over yourself. (Or find a better job).

Dulra · 21/11/2024 11:54

Scirocco · 21/11/2024 11:16

Probably had a lot to do with the horrendous trauma and abuse he experienced at the hands of Hamas. His father was a high-ranking member of the organisation, groomed him and forced him to witness things no child, adolescent or young man should have to see.

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His hate is for his father and everything he represents which is understandable but his comments about Muslims cannot go unchecked, and his hate will eat him up. Hope he is getting the right support to deal with his childhood traumas and pain.

quantumbutterfly · 21/11/2024 11:18

Scirocco · 21/11/2024 11:16

Probably had a lot to do with the horrendous trauma and abuse he experienced at the hands of Hamas. His father was a high-ranking member of the organisation, groomed him and forced him to witness things no child, adolescent or young man should have to see.

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Do you know his father's history?

Original poster
Scirocco · 21/11/2024 11:16

quantumbutterfly · 21/11/2024 11:10

I wonder what made him reject Islam so forcefully.

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Probably had a lot to do with the horrendous trauma and abuse he experienced at the hands of Hamas. His father was a high-ranking member of the organisation, groomed him and forced him to witness things no child, adolescent or young man should have to see.

OP posts:
quantumbutterfly · 21/11/2024 11:10

Scirocco · 21/11/2024 10:56

Among other comments, one of his more famous ones was: "If I have to choose between 1.6 billion Muslims and a cow, I will choose the cow.” He compares Muslims to vermin and calls for violence against us.

What is in his heart is between him and God. At least outwardly, he passionately rejects Islam and speaks of how he converted to Christianity almost 2 decades ago.

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I wonder what made him reject Islam so forcefully.