Ireland believe genocide being perpetrated

It’s all a bit complicated. Tenant buyouts preceded independence and the Land commission arranged the agreed transfer to tenants, but there was also provision for compulsory purchase. After independence, an act was passed to allow compulsory purchase from non citizens and some of the big estates of absentee landlords were divided up and allocated to small farmers to make their holdings viable. This was all happening against a background of decades of agrarian unrest and debt ridden landed estates.

After the Land Acts, instead of rent the Irish farmers (all religions) had the opportunity to buy their holdings by paying the Irish Government an annuity.Then the Irish government in turn paid the British government quarter of a a million pounds a year for years out of these annuities to amass a land purchase fund. Then the Irish got fed up of paying the British government money every year for the land because about two thirds of TDs thought it it seemed stupid to be paying your former oppressor money that would be better spent on repairing derelict infrastructure that was inhibiting economic acitivity. They stopped paying the annuities but it contributed to the economic war and that didn’t go well. Eventually the Irish government paid the British government £10 million to be done with it as WW2 loomed on the horizon in 1938.
So while a few Anglo Irish family had their houses burnt down or threats made against them , it wasn’t a big expulsion. Times were very hard and most families with farms struggled and lost members to war or immigration. My grandmother bought a house from an absentee landlord’s estate when the family died out ( there was an entail) and was on cordial terms with the remaining family when they came to visit after independence, drinking tea with her in one of their ancestral homes.

Is there a reason why you are being oddly defensive about this?

Yes . The peace process matters and depends on communities moving on from past hurts. I know how much suffering happened on both sides . I know how much damage the hatred and bigotry has caused on both sides. Some rhetoric is damaging. That’s all .

Is there a reason why you are being oddly defensive about this?
Yes, even those Scottish people whether poor or rich were coming to a foreign land with the agreement that they would Anglicise the place and that means enforcing English speaking and loyalty to the king. Addressing the facts that a colonial settlers invaded foreign land is what it is. I'm not sure why you're choosing to take some sort of permanent offense to PP accurately describing them as invaders when she was responding to the numerous suggestions that Ireland and Israel were similar nations.

But no one was using it to refer to people today! PP clarified that many times.

This started off with me criticising the term “English invaders . “ I was told that was an accurate term but it’s not an accurate term for describing the situation in the North in the 20th century .
If this is about the Troubles in the 90’s then let’s drop the term “English invaders” as it’s a bigoted term in that context…

The conflict only ended in the 90s. And when there is no justice, as is the case for many, it's hard to get over. Much as it would be handy for everyone if you did.

Im sure that’s true.
I agree that this isn’t easy. In the context of Ireland I think moving on has to be part of the peace process.
Btw - I meant “ move on” in terms of the focus on the tragedy of Irish history rather than “move on” in terms of personal tragedy.
Ireland is a peaceful and successful country now. There may still be deep wounds but all countries have those and there are countries that are suffering now .

Thanks for your answer but I think the Jewish community might find this problematic in the next few years, regarding the Holocaust, as no survivors will be alive.
Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu were, indeed, good role models.
In reality, according to my SA colleague, attitudes towards Black SA haven't changed much. Racism is still deeply ingrained.

Where do you draw the line?

This is the view I object to - a view that suggests the descendants of the (mainly poor Scottish) colonists of the Ulster plantation of 1606 are now considered a “permanent fixture “ because of the Good Friday Agreement and because they “big up their Irishness”

Let's be very clear. English people who came to Ireland and took up land and property that the Irish had been evicted from were invaders.
Given the length of time that some of those families have been here, and in the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement they are considered to be a permanent fixture. Though most big up their Irishness now..
Addressing the nuances in posts is ridiculous as it is beyond multifaceted. But yes I do want my country all of my country for the Irish. I am a proud nationalist. Isn't everyone ?”

Calling the British invaders in a discussion about the the history of colonising of Ireland isn't inflammatory, it's accurate.

I think when there is no longer anyone alive who has personally suffered it is sensible for a nation to move on. Referring back to the suffering of previous generations is useful historically - of course we can learn from the past- but it’s not useful if it encourages division and hatred .
Sometimes moving on is necessary. Nelson Mandela was a very good role model in that respect .

I have not criticised anyone on the basis of their own personal experience of loss in Troubles.
People on both sides of the religious divide in Ireland have lost family members so I think it’s right that we should not use inflammatory or derogatory language about either side.
I think it was clear that I was criticising the hyperbolic description of Anglo Irish people who descended from English colonisers ( but who are now Irish)

I really can’t understand what you’re saying here. My objection was to your use of the term “invaders” and the way you spoke about the descendants of “invaders” (who have now been accepted because of the Good Friday Agreement??)

The Ulster Plantation began in 1606 .. are those the invaders you meant?

And I am not! So maybe read properly peoples posts.

Thank you for the information @mollyfolk and @JaneJeffer.

How is looking for justice bitter?

Your comment shows ignorance and lack of respect for individuals who have still questions unanswered. Thankfully the UK government is doing better..

But keep spouting your ill informed posts of will provide fodder for students on how history wrote by the victor brings ignorance

In fairness you doubled down on your insistence we should 'FFS move on' even when I and other posters said we have lost family members in our lifetimes. If you think the only people killed by the army or terrorists were hundreds of years ago, you're sadly mistaken.

Land wasn't taken by force. It was done through legal means. There was a series of land acts that redistributed land under both British rule and Iater irish rule. That are too complicated for me to remember.

Maybe the poster is referencing the many Protestants who left Ireland during the war of independence and after the free state was established. This was voluntary (but I'm sure many weren't happy about it) Some of this was some feared for their safety during the civil war but there were loads and loads of factors about why these affluence, educated Protestants weren't happy in an independent & poverty stricken Ireland. You could write sn essay on it.

Interesting we still pay ground rents on a small number of properties. They don't add up to a lot but the Duke of Leinster is getting 7 euro a year or something for the national library.

So no - there aren't British people waiting for us to hand back land.

Ok. So when would be the cutting point from moving on or not?

You sound bitter. I’m sorry you still feel so angry about the events in the past. Don’t take it out on people who weren’t even born at the time..

No - I was referring to past events from before any of us were born ( hundreds of years ago)

So do you think the Israelis should move on from 07/10? It is, after all, in the past, recent or not.

Touché, not nice is it.

I am not bigoted and your comment is sickening considering my family history. Those of us today still haven't achieved justice from British acts of murder in very recent history.

But I live by and respect the good Friday Agreement. But I most certainly won't listen to the crap on here basically belittling the impact it had on our citizens and culture.

We forgive we don't forget is a healthy view but it doesn't suit your narrative does it.

Exactly, and why Ireland has a long history of solidarity with SA as well.

I'm sure there was a should in that sentence but it seems to have disappeared