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Conflict in the Middle East

Ireland believe genocide being perpetrated

356 replies

username7891 · 09/11/2024 22:24

I'm surprised this hasn't already been posted but Ireland passed a non binding motion a few days ago that “genocide is being perpetrated before our eyes by Israel in Gaza”.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/micheal-martin-ireland-south-africa-gaza-people-b1192666.html

OP posts:
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9
Dulra · 12/11/2024 16:40

Purspectiveplease · 12/11/2024 16:21

The Irish fight for independence can be very briefly summarised as: there was guerilla war, combined with / causing collapse of state function for about 2 years. During that time, the Irish forces successfully killed or forced out the British. Many people who considered themselves to be British either went back to Britain, or retreated to the north into what is now Northern Ireland. By 1921, Ireland was an independent nation. Some Catholics from Northern Ireland moved to the Republic but many stayed in their homes. The British people who fled for the most part could not return to their old homes or move anywhere else in the Republic of Ireland and live safely as citizens. They mostly lived as British citizens somewhere in the UK. The border eventually stabilised, fighting ended, eventually a peace agreement was signed and today there are 2 states in the land.

Today, there is not a significant lobby in Ireland protesting to give the British people who fled to Northern Ireland or the UK their ancestor’s land back, offer them citizenship or indeed destroy the state of Ireland in order to return it to the British people whose ancestors once lived there. In contrast, there is a very loud protest movement calling on Israelis to give the Arabs who fled to Jordan their ancestor’s land back, offer them citizenship or completely destroy the state of Israel to make a Palestinian state “from the river to the sea”. Ireland’s struggle for independence echoes Israel’s at every step, but in Ireland no one advocates returning property to the old occupiers but they expect Israelis to. That is a double standard.

A very brief summary of the history of Israel would be: Jewish people lived in Israel, the Romans came, caused a lot of death and suffering (equivalent: Irish people lived in Ireland, the British came, caused a lot of death and suffering) and took many of the locals to Europe as slaves. The remaining locals stayed in their largely irrelevant corner of the empire when the Roman Empire morphed into the Byzantine Empire. Then the locals (normal working people) stayed when the Byzantines (the political elite) were forced out by the first Caliphate during the Arab Conquests. (This doesn’t change that Israel is still rightfully the home of the Jews, any more than France “stealing” Ireland from the British would have made Ireland less Irish).

There were several different Caliphates, none of which had its capital in Jerusalem or anywhere which is now Israel or Palestine, so it continued to be a fairly unimportant corner of the world as wars continued and it was “owned” by several caliphates. There was massive population transfer during the following centuries and the Arab population and Arabised local population soon outnumbered the Jewish local population. (Maybe if the British had colonised Ireland more, forcing them to become Protestant or making them the minority in Ireland, then the Irish would recognise their “right” to Ireland today?!) This also caused additional deaths and suffering for the locals. At this stage, the majority of the Jews are still in exile, although mostly no longer slaves.

In the 1500s, the Ottoman Empire emerged victorious. The Jews from other parts of the Ottoman Empire moved / were moved to Israel, as were a lot of other people. Mostly these other people were not considered to be immigrants at the time because they were other citizens of Transjordan who were moving internally within their country. But using today's borders, they would mostly be Jordanians and some Syrians. There was also immigration from Egypt of both Arabs and Bedouins who were understood to be immigrants at the time. After the First World War, Britain “acquired” Transjordan from Turkey.

Shortly before the British left, the majority of Transjordan became independent. The very small Jewish population of the independent Transjordan was moved to the remaining British part. When the British finally left, the borders for the last remaining part of British Transjordan had been agreed and to avoid forcing more people to move, the land was split largely by religion into Israel and Palestine. This would have created 2 very weirdly shaped countries which would have struggled to function independently without very close sharing of resources. Neither could have defended its borders against the other.

The day the British forces left, the fledgling Palestinian state was assisted by the Syrian, Lebanese, Iraqi, Tranjordanian, Egyptian and Sudanese armies to attempt to wipe Israel off of the map and kill all the Jews. Luckily they failed. The reality was that the 2 states could never have functioned, so Israel became a more sensible, defendable shape. To do that, many people were expelled from their homes and fled to Jordan (mostly) and Egypt. Some were also internally displaced within Palestine, hence why there have been refugee camps for Palestinians in Gaza for 3 generations. They’re Palestinains from places which would have been part of Palestine had the British map ever actually become a reality (which it didn't becase the Palestinians rejected it and chose to start a war instead). The Palestinains from Gaza have kept them in refugee camps all this time, rather than letting them live in normal homes. This would be the equivalent of having a refugee camp in Northern Ireland for British people whose families once occupied Dublin (i.e. Palestinan refugees in Gaza), and further refugee camps in England for them (i.e. Palestinian refugees in Jordan). It sounds outrageous when we think of it in European terms, and it is equally outrageous in the Middle East. That doesn't mean the solution is to destroy the world's only Jewish state though.

Good grief I have no idea where you get your information from but it is the stuff of fantasy.

Marblesbackagain · 12/11/2024 16:37

The fact you don't understand that Ireland the nation owned by the Irish people, had their land taken by the invading British in the first place is an example of absolute blinker invading rhetoric.

So in your version the Irish should handover their ancestors land to the invaders ? @Purspectiveplease .

Marblesbackagain · 12/11/2024 16:31

@Purspectiveplease I will give you the benefit of ignorance. Your take on Irish history is a typical UK fallacy.

I strongly recommend you read an Irish History book for facts. That version you wrote should start with once upon a time...

Auvergne63 · 12/11/2024 16:30

Purspectiveplease · 12/11/2024 16:21

The Irish fight for independence can be very briefly summarised as: there was guerilla war, combined with / causing collapse of state function for about 2 years. During that time, the Irish forces successfully killed or forced out the British. Many people who considered themselves to be British either went back to Britain, or retreated to the north into what is now Northern Ireland. By 1921, Ireland was an independent nation. Some Catholics from Northern Ireland moved to the Republic but many stayed in their homes. The British people who fled for the most part could not return to their old homes or move anywhere else in the Republic of Ireland and live safely as citizens. They mostly lived as British citizens somewhere in the UK. The border eventually stabilised, fighting ended, eventually a peace agreement was signed and today there are 2 states in the land.

Today, there is not a significant lobby in Ireland protesting to give the British people who fled to Northern Ireland or the UK their ancestor’s land back, offer them citizenship or indeed destroy the state of Ireland in order to return it to the British people whose ancestors once lived there. In contrast, there is a very loud protest movement calling on Israelis to give the Arabs who fled to Jordan their ancestor’s land back, offer them citizenship or completely destroy the state of Israel to make a Palestinian state “from the river to the sea”. Ireland’s struggle for independence echoes Israel’s at every step, but in Ireland no one advocates returning property to the old occupiers but they expect Israelis to. That is a double standard.

A very brief summary of the history of Israel would be: Jewish people lived in Israel, the Romans came, caused a lot of death and suffering (equivalent: Irish people lived in Ireland, the British came, caused a lot of death and suffering) and took many of the locals to Europe as slaves. The remaining locals stayed in their largely irrelevant corner of the empire when the Roman Empire morphed into the Byzantine Empire. Then the locals (normal working people) stayed when the Byzantines (the political elite) were forced out by the first Caliphate during the Arab Conquests. (This doesn’t change that Israel is still rightfully the home of the Jews, any more than France “stealing” Ireland from the British would have made Ireland less Irish).

There were several different Caliphates, none of which had its capital in Jerusalem or anywhere which is now Israel or Palestine, so it continued to be a fairly unimportant corner of the world as wars continued and it was “owned” by several caliphates. There was massive population transfer during the following centuries and the Arab population and Arabised local population soon outnumbered the Jewish local population. (Maybe if the British had colonised Ireland more, forcing them to become Protestant or making them the minority in Ireland, then the Irish would recognise their “right” to Ireland today?!) This also caused additional deaths and suffering for the locals. At this stage, the majority of the Jews are still in exile, although mostly no longer slaves.

In the 1500s, the Ottoman Empire emerged victorious. The Jews from other parts of the Ottoman Empire moved / were moved to Israel, as were a lot of other people. Mostly these other people were not considered to be immigrants at the time because they were other citizens of Transjordan who were moving internally within their country. But using today's borders, they would mostly be Jordanians and some Syrians. There was also immigration from Egypt of both Arabs and Bedouins who were understood to be immigrants at the time. After the First World War, Britain “acquired” Transjordan from Turkey.

Shortly before the British left, the majority of Transjordan became independent. The very small Jewish population of the independent Transjordan was moved to the remaining British part. When the British finally left, the borders for the last remaining part of British Transjordan had been agreed and to avoid forcing more people to move, the land was split largely by religion into Israel and Palestine. This would have created 2 very weirdly shaped countries which would have struggled to function independently without very close sharing of resources. Neither could have defended its borders against the other.

The day the British forces left, the fledgling Palestinian state was assisted by the Syrian, Lebanese, Iraqi, Tranjordanian, Egyptian and Sudanese armies to attempt to wipe Israel off of the map and kill all the Jews. Luckily they failed. The reality was that the 2 states could never have functioned, so Israel became a more sensible, defendable shape. To do that, many people were expelled from their homes and fled to Jordan (mostly) and Egypt. Some were also internally displaced within Palestine, hence why there have been refugee camps for Palestinians in Gaza for 3 generations. They’re Palestinains from places which would have been part of Palestine had the British map ever actually become a reality (which it didn't becase the Palestinians rejected it and chose to start a war instead). The Palestinains from Gaza have kept them in refugee camps all this time, rather than letting them live in normal homes. This would be the equivalent of having a refugee camp in Northern Ireland for British people whose families once occupied Dublin (i.e. Palestinan refugees in Gaza), and further refugee camps in England for them (i.e. Palestinian refugees in Jordan). It sounds outrageous when we think of it in European terms, and it is equally outrageous in the Middle East. That doesn't mean the solution is to destroy the world's only Jewish state though.

They say that history is written by the victors. Your post is a prime example of this. There are always two sides of a conflict. Being able to look at both sides requires critical thinking and a level of emotional detachment so you can come closer to the truth.

Purspectiveplease · 12/11/2024 16:21

Liv999 · 11/11/2024 15:09

Indeed, so many questions left unanswered..🤔

The Irish fight for independence can be very briefly summarised as: there was guerilla war, combined with / causing collapse of state function for about 2 years. During that time, the Irish forces successfully killed or forced out the British. Many people who considered themselves to be British either went back to Britain, or retreated to the north into what is now Northern Ireland. By 1921, Ireland was an independent nation. Some Catholics from Northern Ireland moved to the Republic but many stayed in their homes. The British people who fled for the most part could not return to their old homes or move anywhere else in the Republic of Ireland and live safely as citizens. They mostly lived as British citizens somewhere in the UK. The border eventually stabilised, fighting ended, eventually a peace agreement was signed and today there are 2 states in the land.

Today, there is not a significant lobby in Ireland protesting to give the British people who fled to Northern Ireland or the UK their ancestor’s land back, offer them citizenship or indeed destroy the state of Ireland in order to return it to the British people whose ancestors once lived there. In contrast, there is a very loud protest movement calling on Israelis to give the Arabs who fled to Jordan their ancestor’s land back, offer them citizenship or completely destroy the state of Israel to make a Palestinian state “from the river to the sea”. Ireland’s struggle for independence echoes Israel’s at every step, but in Ireland no one advocates returning property to the old occupiers but they expect Israelis to. That is a double standard.

A very brief summary of the history of Israel would be: Jewish people lived in Israel, the Romans came, caused a lot of death and suffering (equivalent: Irish people lived in Ireland, the British came, caused a lot of death and suffering) and took many of the locals to Europe as slaves. The remaining locals stayed in their largely irrelevant corner of the empire when the Roman Empire morphed into the Byzantine Empire. Then the locals (normal working people) stayed when the Byzantines (the political elite) were forced out by the first Caliphate during the Arab Conquests. (This doesn’t change that Israel is still rightfully the home of the Jews, any more than France “stealing” Ireland from the British would have made Ireland less Irish).

There were several different Caliphates, none of which had its capital in Jerusalem or anywhere which is now Israel or Palestine, so it continued to be a fairly unimportant corner of the world as wars continued and it was “owned” by several caliphates. There was massive population transfer during the following centuries and the Arab population and Arabised local population soon outnumbered the Jewish local population. (Maybe if the British had colonised Ireland more, forcing them to become Protestant or making them the minority in Ireland, then the Irish would recognise their “right” to Ireland today?!) This also caused additional deaths and suffering for the locals. At this stage, the majority of the Jews are still in exile, although mostly no longer slaves.

In the 1500s, the Ottoman Empire emerged victorious. The Jews from other parts of the Ottoman Empire moved / were moved to Israel, as were a lot of other people. Mostly these other people were not considered to be immigrants at the time because they were other citizens of Transjordan who were moving internally within their country. But using today's borders, they would mostly be Jordanians and some Syrians. There was also immigration from Egypt of both Arabs and Bedouins who were understood to be immigrants at the time. After the First World War, Britain “acquired” Transjordan from Turkey.

Shortly before the British left, the majority of Transjordan became independent. The very small Jewish population of the independent Transjordan was moved to the remaining British part. When the British finally left, the borders for the last remaining part of British Transjordan had been agreed and to avoid forcing more people to move, the land was split largely by religion into Israel and Palestine. This would have created 2 very weirdly shaped countries which would have struggled to function independently without very close sharing of resources. Neither could have defended its borders against the other.

The day the British forces left, the fledgling Palestinian state was assisted by the Syrian, Lebanese, Iraqi, Tranjordanian, Egyptian and Sudanese armies to attempt to wipe Israel off of the map and kill all the Jews. Luckily they failed. The reality was that the 2 states could never have functioned, so Israel became a more sensible, defendable shape. To do that, many people were expelled from their homes and fled to Jordan (mostly) and Egypt. Some were also internally displaced within Palestine, hence why there have been refugee camps for Palestinians in Gaza for 3 generations. They’re Palestinains from places which would have been part of Palestine had the British map ever actually become a reality (which it didn't becase the Palestinians rejected it and chose to start a war instead). The Palestinains from Gaza have kept them in refugee camps all this time, rather than letting them live in normal homes. This would be the equivalent of having a refugee camp in Northern Ireland for British people whose families once occupied Dublin (i.e. Palestinan refugees in Gaza), and further refugee camps in England for them (i.e. Palestinian refugees in Jordan). It sounds outrageous when we think of it in European terms, and it is equally outrageous in the Middle East. That doesn't mean the solution is to destroy the world's only Jewish state though.

LoremIpsumCici · 11/11/2024 21:28

I think only a fraction of actual deaths make it to the death toll report. It’s not just me that thinks this, there was a recent report in the Lancet written by professionals who have come to a similar conclusion regarding the number of people killed in Gaza. (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)01169-3/fulltext)

In recent conflicts, such indirect deaths range from three to 15 times the number of direct deaths.

44k times 3 = 132k minimumindirect deaths
44+132= 176k minimum total deaths

44k times 15 = 660k maximum indirect deaths
44+660= 1m maximum total deaths

Using the 2022 Gaza Strip population estimate of 2 ,375 ,259, this would translate to 7%-42% of the total population in the Gaza Strip.

I would not be surprised if a quarter of a million have lost their lives by now. The authors used the conservative multiplier of 4 which if applied today would indicate 220k deaths.

So 225k, a quarter million is a conservative estimate. This could explain why the famine caused by lack of aid hasn’t been progressing as fast as some NGOs initially estimated/warned.

username7891 · 11/11/2024 21:19

Dulra · 11/11/2024 20:51

Saw this on haaretz. Haven't seen it anywhere else though

The U.S. is likely to officially designate Israel on Wednesday as non-compliant with its demand to significantly increase humanitarian aid entering Gaza, Israeli officials and Western diplomats told Haaretz, which could lead to a freeze on arms supplies and/or no U.S. veto of UN Security Council resolutions against Israel. The IDF is allowing armed Palestinians to loot aid convoys entering Gaza and to extort protection money from them, sources in aid organizations working in the Strip told Haaretz. The IDF said it has expanded the humanitarian zone in Gaza. Hezbollah fired over 185 rockets at Haifa and northern Israel on Monday.

That's very interesting, thank you.

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 11/11/2024 21:06

Dulra · 11/11/2024 20:51

Saw this on haaretz. Haven't seen it anywhere else though

The U.S. is likely to officially designate Israel on Wednesday as non-compliant with its demand to significantly increase humanitarian aid entering Gaza, Israeli officials and Western diplomats told Haaretz, which could lead to a freeze on arms supplies and/or no U.S. veto of UN Security Council resolutions against Israel. The IDF is allowing armed Palestinians to loot aid convoys entering Gaza and to extort protection money from them, sources in aid organizations working in the Strip told Haaretz. The IDF said it has expanded the humanitarian zone in Gaza. Hezbollah fired over 185 rockets at Haifa and northern Israel on Monday.

I was not quite clear who is extorting the protection money from whom? The IDF from the armed Palestinians? Can anyone tell what is meant here, please?

LoremIpsumCici · 11/11/2024 20:58

I personally think Biden will do nothing but another letter. It will likely be in the form of a progress report and they will tell the world that Israel, while falling short has ‘improved’ ever so slightly on a few measures and so the US is happy with the ‘trajectory’ and still thinks a ‘negotiated solution’ is the best way to end the war. That’s my guess.

Dulra · 11/11/2024 20:51

username7891 · 11/11/2024 20:41

It will be interesting to see if Biden does anything regarding his letter on humanitarian aid from a few weeks ago. I read today that there's even less getting in now.

It will also be interesting to see how Trump approaches the situation.

Saw this on haaretz. Haven't seen it anywhere else though

The U.S. is likely to officially designate Israel on Wednesday as non-compliant with its demand to significantly increase humanitarian aid entering Gaza, Israeli officials and Western diplomats told Haaretz, which could lead to a freeze on arms supplies and/or no U.S. veto of UN Security Council resolutions against Israel. The IDF is allowing armed Palestinians to loot aid convoys entering Gaza and to extort protection money from them, sources in aid organizations working in the Strip told Haaretz. The IDF said it has expanded the humanitarian zone in Gaza. Hezbollah fired over 185 rockets at Haifa and northern Israel on Monday.

username7891 · 11/11/2024 20:41

LoremIpsumCici · 11/11/2024 20:36

It’s not hugely important.

  1. The US have RAF bases they have leased in the U.K. and can fly over NI to Wales and then England.
  2. They can refuel in the air, almost anywhere.

It will be interesting to see if Biden does anything regarding his letter on humanitarian aid from a few weeks ago. I read today that there's even less getting in now.

It will also be interesting to see how Trump approaches the situation.

OP posts:
LoremIpsumCici · 11/11/2024 20:36

Martymcfly24 · 09/11/2024 22:44

Suspending the airspace involves running into a diplomatic crisis with America as well as Shannon is a very important refueling stop for them. I think with the new President Elect this could be very contentious.

The Bill only stops trade with the Occupied Territories in the West Bank not the whole of Israel I think.

Edited

It’s not hugely important.

  1. The US have RAF bases they have leased in the U.K. and can fly over NI to Wales and then England.
  2. They can refuel in the air, almost anywhere.
GhostCicada · 11/11/2024 19:45

Kindatired · 11/11/2024 19:21

As far as I can gather, they have been sitting and watching Hezbollah missiles flying overhead from Lebanon into Israel for a good number of years now.
@Usou The term peacekeeping is misleading. Their mission is to observe and they are not sanctioned to intervene. If they were authorised to intervene they would. That would be peace enforcement. Our soldiers are putting their lives on the line for peace for other people’s children’s future. It’s really insulting to them and to those of us who have friends and family who serve, those of us who live in garrisson towns and most of all to the families of those killed in the Lebanon over the years.

What I find interesting is that nobody seems bothered that UNIFIL also 'sit and watch' Israels 1000s of breaches of the blue line. If UNIFIL started actively protecting the blue line from
Israel instead of just monitoring there would be howls of indignation. It's just another of the double standards that apply to Israel.

Kindatired · 11/11/2024 19:21

As far as I can gather, they have been sitting and watching Hezbollah missiles flying overhead from Lebanon into Israel for a good number of years now.
@Usou The term peacekeeping is misleading. Their mission is to observe and they are not sanctioned to intervene. If they were authorised to intervene they would. That would be peace enforcement. Our soldiers are putting their lives on the line for peace for other people’s children’s future. It’s really insulting to them and to those of us who have friends and family who serve, those of us who live in garrisson towns and most of all to the families of those killed in the Lebanon over the years.

Auvergne63 · 11/11/2024 19:13

Limesodaagain · 10/11/2024 22:01

Ive just come back from seeing Small Things Like These . Excellent film and book . Ireland and the Catholic Church has made a lot of mistakes - as have all countries and all religions . No country or religion ( and by that I mean the human representatives of the country or religion) is purely good or bad . The important thing is to be honest and open about the mistakes of the past.

France committed atrocities. The Algerian war of independence, being an example.
My father was conscripted at the age of 20 to fight against Algerians. What he saw haunted him for the rest of his life. He developed PTSD, which wasn't recognised, let alone treated, at the time.
The French tortured and killed with impunity. Le Pen was one of them.
It is shameful that Macron and his predecessors has refused to apologise for these atrocities.

Auvergne63 · 11/11/2024 19:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

People's revised and made up history on this thread
On every single thread.
I am glad that Ireland have declared it a genocide. I wish France did the same.

Liv999 · 11/11/2024 15:09

Dulra · 11/11/2024 14:05

Also still waiting to hear how we expelled the British from their homes in Ireland, no idea how that was missing from the history curriculum

Indeed, so many questions left unanswered..🤔

GhostCicada · 11/11/2024 14:17

Dulra · 11/11/2024 14:05

Also still waiting to hear how we expelled the British from their homes in Ireland, no idea how that was missing from the history curriculum

Who knows but it sounds like maybe Israel are next? First we take their independence, then their homes, maybe this is Fianna Gaels solution to the housing crisis. Could be a popular move, Ireland in the sun.

Dulra · 11/11/2024 14:13

Usou · 11/11/2024 13:27

I live in Ireland and am baffled by why people consider themselves akin to the Palestinians. They aren't - the average Gazan would consider Irish people to be pork eating infidels.

I think there are a number of reasons: an Israeli/Jewish perspective or historical background is never presented - particularly by RTE, which issues reports by Hamas' "Health Ministry" verbatim - forgetting their usual obsession with fact checking. People are never told about the thousands of Jewish communities from Morocco to Tajikistan that have perished under Ottoman and other Arab/Muslim expansion, and that Israel is the only remaining territory in which Jews have a chance of defending themselves.

The Israelis are a convenient fit for the need for a baddy among the virtue signallers that fill the major political parties - as long as nobody looks too deep.

Casualty numbers are substantial - as Hamas knew they would be, but there is no genocide. There would have been had Hamas not been stopped on October 7th. Hamas would slaughter until no Jews remain as per their stated objectives. The Israelis have no such goal, but are continually forced to react defensively.

The media in Ireland is full of the heroics of their battalion of UN peacekeepers - there to monitor the peace. As far as I can gather, they have been sitting and watching Hezbollah missiles flying overhead from Lebanon into Israel for a good number of years now.

You live in Ireland but seem to only quote rte as a news source? You do know we have access to multiple Irish, British and international news channels on TV, in print and online.

People are never told about the thousands of Jewish communities from Morocco to Tajikistan that have perished under Ottoman and other Arab/Muslim expansion, and that Israel is the only remaining territory in which Jews have a chance of defending themselves.
Are we not told? Are people from other countries told? Are we that passive that unless information is on RTE we have no other means of informing ourselves.

The media in Ireland is full of the heroics of their battalion of UN peacekeepers - there to monitor the peace. As far as I can gather, they have been sitting and watching Hezbollah missiles flying overhead from Lebanon into Israel for a good number of years now.
As far as you are aware ... You're aware of pretty little really.
Yes the media in Ireland support their peace keeping troops abroad that is hardly unusual most countries support their troops.

Edited to add
Gazans may consider us pork eating infidels (not seen anything to suggest they do) but what they think of us is not relevant to their situation and why we want to support them.

MummytoE · 11/11/2024 14:05

Good for Ireland

Dulra · 11/11/2024 14:05

GhostCicada · 11/11/2024 14:00

Is it? Maybe you can explain how Ireland is 'denying Israel the right to independence'? I know our government can be sneaky wee bastards but they've hidden that well, do you think we will ever give Israel back their independence, maybe we should have a referendum about it 🤔

Also still waiting to hear how we expelled the British from their homes in Ireland, no idea how that was missing from the history curriculum

Usernamesareboring1 · 11/11/2024 14:04

GhostCicada · 11/11/2024 14:00

Is it? Maybe you can explain how Ireland is 'denying Israel the right to independence'? I know our government can be sneaky wee bastards but they've hidden that well, do you think we will ever give Israel back their independence, maybe we should have a referendum about it 🤔

While they're at that maybe they can tell us who exactly Israel is fighting for Independence from? 😂Or @Purspectiveplease

JaneJeffer · 11/11/2024 14:03

Don't you just love it when someone's username really suits them?

GhostCicada · 11/11/2024 14:00

SimpleThings101 · 11/11/2024 13:55

Very well said 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Is it? Maybe you can explain how Ireland is 'denying Israel the right to independence'? I know our government can be sneaky wee bastards but they've hidden that well, do you think we will ever give Israel back their independence, maybe we should have a referendum about it 🤔

SimpleThings101 · 11/11/2024 13:55

Purspectiveplease · 10/11/2024 15:07

I do not understand why Irish people see themselves in Palestinians. Palestine is an outpost of a caliphate which violently expelled the majority of the indigenous people. The Arab conquests and the massive Arabic speaking, Muslim empire they created is much more analogous to the British Empire than to Ireland. The Israeli fight for independence is more similar to the Irish struggle for independence. Many British people who had lived in Ireland for 800 years were expelled from their homes and Irish people don't seem to advocate returning them, even if they still own their keys. But somehow they deny Israel the right to independence that they enjoy. Maybe it’s poor history education, maybe it’s the echo of old Catholic antisemitism or maybe it’s just plain old modern antisemitism.

Very well said 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻