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Conflict in the Middle East

Amsterdam

645 replies

EricInk · 08/11/2024 09:58

I can't believe how unbalanced the media reporting is of the events last night

The maccabi fans were behaving atrociously and inciting conflict the entire day, pulling down flags, chanting 'fuck Palestine' and intimidating Dutch Arabs

OP posts:
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23
yesmen · 10/11/2024 12:10

Lolapusht · 10/11/2024 11:24

You’ve taken my post out of context as it wasn’t referring to Gaza…

I know.

But part of what stood out to me was that a country “at war” has enough no war for its citizens to travel for tourism and a sporting event.

Palestinian's would not be able to and not simply because flights cannot get in or out.

and let’s not make any mistakes here - this is ALL about Gaza.

Certainly if the Macabi hooligan chants were anything to go by.

ismu · 10/11/2024 12:02

@Lolapusht Trans did exist. Have you seen cabaret? However in the 80s it was seen as a medical condition.

Lalaloveya · 10/11/2024 11:59

Usernamesareboring1 · 10/11/2024 11:53

Thank you I totally agree with you, it's very clear what people's intent is when they say "never again" referring to all and any genocides including those who are Holocaust survivors themselves. The Maccabi songs have no good intent, they are racist, genocidal and they are singing about real children actually being murdered right now and so many posters can't even muster up condemning it. But you say "never again" with good intent of a message of anti violence and that all human life is equal and suddenly the word grotesque comes to their minds. I can't follow the logic.

Logic is pretty thin on the ground in the arguments you've mentioned. So it's hard to find, never mind follow.

ismu · 10/11/2024 11:58

@Lolapusht @Comedycook you do have selective memories.

Homosexuality was legalized in Scotland on February 1, 1981, when the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Act came into effect. This was 13 years after the Sexual Offences Act was passed in 1967, which decriminalized private homosexual acts between men over 21 in England and Wales.

No way was there a textbook with the pink triangle here. The communards used it in their single covers- no one knew what it meant.
*
Section 28* refers to a part of the Local Government Act 1988, which stated that local authorities in England, Scotland and Wales "shall not intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality"

No one knew what that meant either so no one taught it.
Romanticising the past is unhelpful.

Limesodaagain · 10/11/2024 11:58

Auvergne63 · 10/11/2024 11:46

As I said, look it up. You persist in denying that is offensive. Why?

The terms homosexual / heterosexual are not offensive.
It’s the tone and context that might make it seem offensive

Lolapusht · 10/11/2024 11:57

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 10/11/2024 11:54

As I said, look it up. You persist in denying that is offensive. Why?

Because I don't agree. It's a somewhat outdated term, it isn't abusive.

I don't think any of you were educated during the 1980s/1990s or you would remember the absolutely horrific homophobia that was normalised

You'd be wrong. I had family with a love of history, and I read.

I’m going to ask Gay X if ‘homosexual’ is now offensive because I must have missed that memo. I know quer devs is. An fg and f**t, but homosexual 🤨

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 10/11/2024 11:54

As I said, look it up. You persist in denying that is offensive. Why?

Because I don't agree. It's a somewhat outdated term, it isn't abusive.

I don't think any of you were educated during the 1980s/1990s or you would remember the absolutely horrific homophobia that was normalised

You'd be wrong. I had family with a love of history, and I read.

Usernamesareboring1 · 10/11/2024 11:53

KoalaBC · 10/11/2024 11:28

Spot on, I really could not have said it better myself, you have articulated my thoughts exactly. I really hope @SharonEllis reflects on this and how stark the double standards and hypocrisy in her posts are.

When I asked her thoughts on the Maccabi fans singing openly in Israel (so not taunting any opposition fans) just joyously singing how the IDF have murderer all the school children, the response was very wishy washy on yes it's not great but that's what football fans do.

Yet, the mention that 'Never Again' is now used by many to include the prevention of all genocides and even by some for other crimes/atrocities, however this does not diminish the link to the holocaust, I recieved a barrage of posts on how it is so 'grotesque' and what a terrible thing it is to say etc etc. The way they responded you would think I was chanting and laughing at a genocide.

Thank you I totally agree with you, it's very clear what people's intent is when they say "never again" referring to all and any genocides including those who are Holocaust survivors themselves. The Maccabi songs have no good intent, they are racist, genocidal and they are singing about real children actually being murdered right now and so many posters can't even muster up condemning it. But you say "never again" with good intent of a message of anti violence and that all human life is equal and suddenly the word grotesque comes to their minds. I can't follow the logic.

Lolapusht · 10/11/2024 11:53

ismu · 10/11/2024 11:46

@Hunglikeapolevaulter @Comedycook
@Lolapusht

I don't think any of you were educated during the 1980s/1990s or you would remember the absolutely horrific homophobia that was normalised. Children would also be lucky to learn about the Holocaust, maybe a page or two in a textbook. Most of us learned about it from TV series like The World At War.
S28 banned promotion of LGBT. That extended pretty much to any mention of it at all. And then there was AIDS. Books were removed from libraries.

😂

When do you think I was educated?! You’ve just removed 20 years from the possibilities so it should be quite simply for you to guess.

I definitely remember the terrifying AIDS adverts. I can’t remember every word spoken in The World At War and I wouldn’t want to be accused of having a selective memory or not ever having watched it, but did they say that it was only Jews who were victims of the Holocaust?

Oh, and s28 had no reference of T.

myearthisflat · 10/11/2024 11:51

@Lolapusht
I don't know who and how control the media, but he fact that most media are not free and biased is obvious.
What I meant is Israel government has control over the IDF and can start complying with the international laws and norms.

Auvergne63 · 10/11/2024 11:50

yesmen · 10/11/2024 11:46

Clearly not.

I mean, Israelis are the nicest people on the planet, are total and continuous victims, have absolutely no history at all of racism, discrimination or violence, are known for fair play and always take accountability.

The large Jewish diaspora agrees with the above and will defend them no matter what they do.

Any opinion to the contrary firmly shows that you are actually a secret but transparent anti semite who wants to commit violence against Jewish people everywhere.

You have forgotten to include being are pro-Hamas, a terrorist lover, a useful idiot, a leftie and so on. I and many others have been called all these.

yesmen · 10/11/2024 11:49

ismu · 08/11/2024 13:46

@KoalaBC probably the most vomit inducing part of this whole situation is Geert Wilders, an obnoxious anti semite and racist, capitalising on this incident and condemning the violence as a pogrom. That should tell us a lot.
Why is Geert Wilders supporting Israel here?

Because he HATES Arabs.

GhostCicada · 10/11/2024 11:49

myearthisflat · 10/11/2024 11:27

The whitewashing of the thugish racist hooligans is a giant disservice to all jewish people. Another layer to cover up the indefensible only raises the temperature everywhere and promotes all sorts of conspiracies.
It is in everyone's intrest not to take that road, but I have no idea who is in control of it (apart from the government of Israel - they do have some control).

I agree that the Amsterdam police sitting back and watching Israelis racist and anti Arab behaviour is only going to make more division. Locals should have been protected by the police from the behaviour of the Israeli fans in the days before the match. The message that the police sent out loud and clear was 'We don't care about you.' Then Israelis were flown away with no charges brought, there as far as I can see has been no apology and no sanctions from football bodies who are supposedly trying to stamp out racism in football. The way this has been handled will do nothing to stop division and hate.

Comedycook · 10/11/2024 11:49

ismu · 10/11/2024 11:46

@Hunglikeapolevaulter @Comedycook
@Lolapusht

I don't think any of you were educated during the 1980s/1990s or you would remember the absolutely horrific homophobia that was normalised. Children would also be lucky to learn about the Holocaust, maybe a page or two in a textbook. Most of us learned about it from TV series like The World At War.
S28 banned promotion of LGBT. That extended pretty much to any mention of it at all. And then there was AIDS. Books were removed from libraries.

Yes I was educated in the 80/90s. I have a memory of a page in a history textbook explaining the pink triangle.

ismu · 10/11/2024 11:46

@Hunglikeapolevaulter @Comedycook
@Lolapusht

I don't think any of you were educated during the 1980s/1990s or you would remember the absolutely horrific homophobia that was normalised. Children would also be lucky to learn about the Holocaust, maybe a page or two in a textbook. Most of us learned about it from TV series like The World At War.
S28 banned promotion of LGBT. That extended pretty much to any mention of it at all. And then there was AIDS. Books were removed from libraries.

yesmen · 10/11/2024 11:46

KoalaBC · 08/11/2024 13:35

So you think it is not related in anyway by the provocation of the Maccabi fans chanting death to Arabs amongst other hideous things?

Clearly not.

I mean, Israelis are the nicest people on the planet, are total and continuous victims, have absolutely no history at all of racism, discrimination or violence, are known for fair play and always take accountability.

The large Jewish diaspora agrees with the above and will defend them no matter what they do.

Any opinion to the contrary firmly shows that you are actually a secret but transparent anti semite who wants to commit violence against Jewish people everywhere.

Auvergne63 · 10/11/2024 11:46

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 10/11/2024 11:42

Your post is bordering homophobic and stop using the term homosexual as it is offensive. If you don't know why, look it up.

The language has changed but the term is factual, it's never been used as a term of abuse.

As I said, look it up. You persist in denying that is offensive. Why?

Lolapusht · 10/11/2024 11:46

myearthisflat · 10/11/2024 11:27

The whitewashing of the thugish racist hooligans is a giant disservice to all jewish people. Another layer to cover up the indefensible only raises the temperature everywhere and promotes all sorts of conspiracies.
It is in everyone's intrest not to take that road, but I have no idea who is in control of it (apart from the government of Israel - they do have some control).

The Israeli government have some control in controlling which road ‘everyone’ takes with regard to the temperature everywhere and the promotion of all sorts of conspiracies? Forgive my clumsy quoting, but I’m trying to detangle what you posted as it reads like you’re suggesting Israel controls the global narrative and I just wanted to make sure.

Your post reads awfully like Israel (ie Jews) are controlling the media and well, I think we all know what that is.

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 10/11/2024 11:42

Your post is bordering homophobic and stop using the term homosexual as it is offensive. If you don't know why, look it up.

The language has changed but the term is factual, it's never been used as a term of abuse.

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 10/11/2024 11:41

Are you aware that the term "homosexuals" is a slur? Some in the gay community see it as homophobic too.

That was the correct language of the time, and the language used in the books I have read on the subject. Some people consider queer to be a slur, too, yet others choose to use it.

So you must have been educated somewhere very brave in the 1990s. Some people have selective memories.

There's these things called books.

Auvergne63 · 10/11/2024 11:41

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 10/11/2024 11:09

@ismu
I didn't edit my post, and I was talking about the expropriation by eg trans and "queer" groups of what did happen to gay/homosexual people. God knows what you think I said.

Your post is bordering homophobic and stop using the term homosexual as it is offensive. If you don't know why, look it up.

Lolapusht · 10/11/2024 11:39

ismu · 10/11/2024 11:27

@Lolapusht section 28 banned references to homosexuality.
So you must have been educated somewhere very brave in the 1990s. Some people have selective memories.

No it didn’t. s28 banned the promotion of homosexuality, not mentioning it at all. I wasn’t educated anywhere brave in the 90s, just a totally normal city. Not sure why you’re suggesting my memory of my own education is selective.

Auvergne63 · 10/11/2024 11:32

Hunglikeapolevaulter · 10/11/2024 10:53

what a distasteful comment. Are LGBT people less human than Jewish people? They suffered in the Holocaust. Do not deny it!

Point out to me where I denied that homosexuals were persecuted, please.

Are you aware that the term "homosexuals" is a slur? Some in the gay community see it as homophobic too.
During the Holocaust, thousands of gay men were imprisoned in Nazi concentration camps, while some were experimented upon in an effort to “cure” their sexuality. Some men accused of homosexuality were forcibly castrated. They also had to wear a pink triangle in the camps.