Hamas don’t want peace

What is with the word "oppressed". Throughout history tribes with long standing opposing ideology have warred back and forth. It isn't oppressed it is competition for land, resources, ideological meaning, religious meaning.

EVEN within PALESTINE there is infighting between those who want a more hardline religious (think Hamas/Hezbolla, Jihadist) Palestinian State and those who want a more secular, democratic state!

It isn't as SIMPLE as Israel "oppressing" and to simply put the ENTIRE issue as "Israel's" fault or that Israel is oppressing others is just showing one's ignorance.

ANYTIME you have a more advanced, less religious based (more secular than religious based government), one that is more democratic, can keep their people out of poverty due to ingenuity, THAT country will dominate.

Survival of the fittest if you will. And the fittest - those highly developed countries have the ability to influence BECAUSE they can maintain an economy and have sophisticated diplomacy.

No, it may not be "fair" but life is not ever going to be "fair" and survival depends on being the strongest, and then sharing the strength.

This is why the United States, GB, Germany, Japan, Austrailia, are where refugees flock. But in doing that, refugees need to leave their religious fights at the immigration office and accept national secularism.

@Feelingathomenow Perhaps then, if I've misunderstood, you could explain to me. People have seen the evidence of horrific things happening in Palestine and Lebanon. There is video footage, eyewitness accounts, statements and social media videos from the soldiers on the ground all evidencing seriously concerning acts which really do look to be war crimes. Internationally respected scholars of genocide have expressed that this looks like a genocide. Internationally respected legal experts have expressed concerns that acts look to be war crimes. You previously described people as "demonising Israel" when they were saying these things are wrong. Do you consider it wrong for any group of people to be subjected to these things - if so, how does that match up with the objections to people condemning those actions? How do you think people should object to those actions?

Right anyway, I’m off out now for the weekend so you can enjoy your echo chamber once again. Would love to know who posts in a similar style to me though- probably quite an intelligent and interesting person.

Oh I think it is.

Self-defence doesn't include what is happening in Palestine and Lebanon now.

Yes, although not a full member of NATO you could probably look to Article 51 for guidance on what is generally accepted - the right to self defence by a country.

Have you thought their actions might be necessary for its existence because so many people in the Middle East

This is what you asked. Their actions are apartheid. You were asking me if I had thought whether apartheid is necessary.

No that is not what I am asking. It’s what you want the question to be. I am asking do you believe that the Jewish people have a right to their homeland? And do you believe that, like any other country they have a right to defend their homeland if an enemy comes into its homeland and commits acts of mass murder, torture and rape then kidnaps some citizens

Generally speaking, international law provides the framework and limits for how countries can exercise that right to self-defence.

What's happening in Palestine and Lebanon doesn't really fit within that framework and those limits.

Vengeance is not the same as justice. Genocidal actions, war crimes and human rights abuses are not the same as self-defence.

@Feelingathomenow I would love to tell you what I posted but obviously I'm not allowed to. Posters can only use one name per thread though so it obviously was nothing like that.

No that is not what I am asking. It’s what you want the question to be. I am asking do you believe that the Jewish people have a right to their homeland? And do you believe that, like any other country they have a right to defend their homeland if an enemy comes into its homeland and commits acts of mass murder, torture and rape then kidnaps some citizens

@herecomesautumn

@JaneJeffer is right. A majority of the posters since yesterday have had a similar stance on the issue with the exception of @Feelingathomenow

A couple of days ago there were many more posters making a similar argument to @Feelingathomenow. Haven't seen them post until @JaneJeffer just said something now. Wasn't really that hard to understand

Have I thought that apartheid is necessary? Are you really asking that? That's fucked up, no wonder you are off on your way.

@Feelingathomenow you continually misrepresent history, you're either ignorant, prejudiced or lying. Perhaps all of those.

For example;

Many civilians died in WW2 in trying to stop the spread of tyranny

This is untrue, the allies didn't fight the axis powers on any other grounds other than to prevent and ultimately reverse German expansionism. If Germany hadn't invaded it's neighbours it's doubtful either the west or USSR would have done much at all.

What is with the word "oppressed". Throughout history tribes with long standing opposing ideology have warred back and forth. It isn't oppressed it is competition for land, resources, ideological meaning, religious meaning.

EVEN within PALESTINE there is infighting between those who want a more hardline religious (think Hamas/Hezbolla, Jihadist) Palestinian State and those who want a more secular, democratic state!

It isn't as SIMPLE as Israel "oppressing" and to simply put the ENTIRE issue as "Israel's" fault or that Israel is oppressing others is just showing one's ignorance.

ANYTIME you have a more advanced, less religious based (more secular than religious based government), one that is more democratic, can keep their people out of poverty due to ingenuity, THAT country will dominate.

Survival of the fittest if you will. And the fittest - those highly developed countries have the ability to influence BECAUSE they can maintain an economy and have sophisticated diplomacy.

No, it may not be "fair" but life is not ever going to be "fair" and survival depends on being the strongest, and then sharing the strength.

This is why the United States, GB, Germany, Japan, Austrailia, are where refugees flock. But in doing that, refugees need to leave their religious fights at the immigration office and accept national secularism.

They were not "petty patroni(z)ing insults".

Only you can make yourself feel inferior to anyone.

Don't speak for everyone else because not everyone else thinks like you do.

What is with the word "oppressed". Throughout history tribes with long standing opposing ideology have warred back and forth. It isn't oppressed it is competition for land, resources, ideological meaning, religious meaning.

EVEN within PALESTINE there is infighting between those who want a more hardline religious (think Hamas/Hezbolla, Jihadist) Palestinian State and those who want a more secular, democratic state!

It isn't as SIMPLE as Israel "oppressing" and to simply put the ENTIRE issue as "Israel's" fault or that Israel is oppressing others is just showing one's ignorance.

ANYTIME you have a more advanced, less religious based (more secular than religious based government), one that is more democratic, can keep their people out of poverty due to ingenuity, THAT country will dominate.

Survival of the fittest if you will. And the fittest - those highly developed countries have the ability to influence BECAUSE they can maintain an economy and have sophisticated diplomacy.

No, it may not be "fair" but life is not ever going to be "fair" and survival depends on being the strongest, and then sharing the strength.

This is why the United States, GB, Germany, Japan, Austrailia, are where refugees flock. But in doing that, refugees need to leave their religious fights at the immigration office and accept national secularism.

@Sheri99 What about before Hamas existed? Gazans were still being killed, expelled and having their land and property illegal stolen from them? What about the in the West Bank where Hamas doesn’t operate?

In them last 70 years that you've mentioned, Hamas is relatively new so can you explain why Palestinians were being oppressed by Israel prior to Hamas?

Israel is not "bombing the - out of them". Palestinians are collateral damage due to Hamas' refusal to use rules of engagement one of which means: "Do not HIDE behind civilian populations". Look at facts not emotional propaganda. Hamas and the likes, use not just Palestinians but also emotion filled sympathetic people, such as yourself, as a means to create emotion thereby furthering their jihadist cause.

Israel is not "bombing the - out of them". Palestinians are collateral damage due to Hamas' refusal to use rules of engagement one of which means: "Do not HIDE behind civilian populations". Look at facts not emotional propaganda. Hamas and the likes, use not just Palestinians but also emotion filled sympathetic people, such as yourself, as a means to create emotion thereby furthering their jihadist cause.