Page 8 | How many more will Israel kill?

Whatsinanamehey · 2024-10-29T15:20:02+00:00

Nearly a 100 people reportedly killed in the north of Gaza today from a strike in Beit Lahia. Many of the dead are small children with some of the footage the most shocking I have seen. Dead children still trapped under the rubble and countless more injured. How can they continue to kill like this? How can this still be justified as self defence? How can such callous disregard for human life be condoned?

GhostCicada · 31/10/2024 17:19

2024onwardsandup · 31/10/2024 16:58

I’m not talking about Israel - I’m talking about Hamas.

it’s just unhelpful to not acknowledge Hamas are and what they want to do. It is a fundamental part of the situation.

Freeing the Palestinian people from Hamas is a fundamental part of resolving the situation. Ignoring that only bolsters the right wing in Israel

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It's equally unhelpful to ignore what Israel have pledged, have the capability to do and are actually doing. It's a fundamental part of the situation.

If Hamas have to be dealt with then so do Israel. Their stated aims are the same to destroy the other but only one of them have the capability and only one of them are doing it.

Original poster

Whatsinanamehey · 31/10/2024 17:10

Usernamesareboring1 · 31/10/2024 16:06

I think it's a shame if you bow out considering it doesn't sound like you are aware fully of the reports coming out of the region which would explain why PP are making an equivalence.

They are putting people in detention camps and starving and torturing them. There are videos of IDF soldiers stealing the possessions of killed or detained Gazan civilians. Strapping dead children's toys to their bulldozers. They are targeting civilians. They are digging holes and placing women and children in them before telling them they must leave or they will be dead in that hole. Have you read any of the reports of the trauma IDF soldiers are reporting from for example "running over hundreds of alive people with bulldozers"?

No, it's not industrialised in the same way as the Holocaust, but we have to remember it didn't start that way either.

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This! People who are trying to say it is not as bad as this or that either generally are unaware of half of the horrors or then choose to ignore it.

OP posts:

Dulra · 31/10/2024 17:04

2024onwardsandup · 31/10/2024 17:01

@Dulra so Israel is just meant to not do anything about Hamas until it has even more capability?

And what about the very real threat radical Islam poses to the West - which is also part of the mix.

its just wholly unhelpful to pretend that Hamas are not a threat that need to be dealt with - including a threat to the Palestinian people

so Israel is just meant to not do anything about Hamas until it has even more capability?
I didn't say that did I?

No one is saying Hamas is not a threat but a lot of what Isreal is doing to people in Gaza is not about defeating Hamas it is about destroying Gaza, killing innocent civilians and denying them humanitarian aid, medical assistance and safety

2024onwardsandup · 31/10/2024 17:01

@Dulra so Israel is just meant to not do anything about Hamas until it has even more capability?

And what about the very real threat radical Islam poses to the West - which is also part of the mix.

its just wholly unhelpful to pretend that Hamas are not a threat that need to be dealt with - including a threat to the Palestinian people

Usernamesareboring1 · 31/10/2024 17:00

2024onwardsandup · 31/10/2024 16:46

@Lalaloveya this is what I mean….how is it imaginary???? What do you think Hamas was doing on 7 October??? What do think it would do if Israel had no military or defence???

Well let's just that Israel had no military defence (which the Palestinian people don't) Hamas would cut off the food, electricity and water, bombard the whole nation with bombs , displace millions of Israelis, destroy the hospitals so no one can be treated and women and children are operated on without anaesthesia, starve the population to point of famine what would you call it? What would you say?

2024onwardsandup · 31/10/2024 16:58

GhostCicada · 31/10/2024 16:52

It baffles me that people don't acknowledge that members of the Israeli government have stated their aim as Nakba. The defence minister literally said that they would eliminate everything and by the looks of it the are sticking to that but people still won't admit that this is far beyond self defence.

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I’m not talking about Israel - I’m talking about Hamas.

it’s just unhelpful to not acknowledge Hamas are and what they want to do. It is a fundamental part of the situation.

Freeing the Palestinian people from Hamas is a fundamental part of resolving the situation. Ignoring that only bolsters the right wing in Israel

Dulra · 31/10/2024 16:55

2024onwardsandup · 31/10/2024 16:48

@Dulra are you honestly saying that Hamas is not a existential threat to Israel and the Jewish people?

Yes they do not have the capability to destroy Israel. Existential threat is a threat to people's existence and survival. So yes there is an existential threat to individual Isreali citizens as we have seen but not to Israel, they don't have the means to destroy Israel. The current Isreali government has expressed intent to destroy Gaza and the capability to do it.

GhostCicada · 31/10/2024 16:52

2024onwardsandup · 31/10/2024 16:37

Do people understand that Hamas started aim is to destroy Israel and the Jewish people?

What do people think would have happened if Hamas had been successful in an invasion of Israel on 7 October? They weren’t calling people to warn them…

not to mention how Hamas has sacrificed Palestinians to hide behind

there is no doubt there are very real awful things Netanyahu and conhave done

but it baffles me that people don’t acknowledge that Hamas EXPLICITLY states that its aim IS genocide of the Jewish people

It baffles me that people don't acknowledge that members of the Israeli government have stated their aim as Nakba. The defence minister literally said that they would eliminate everything and by the looks of it the are sticking to that but people still won't admit that this is far beyond self defence.

Dulra · 31/10/2024 16:51

dairydebris · 31/10/2024 15:57

I know. It's the attempt to destroy in part or in whole a group of people. I know what genocide is. We can go back and forth on whether or not Gaza is suffering a genocide, I'm not debating that here.

It's the equating of the Holocaust with the war in Gaza that I cannot bear. Civilians are being bombed yes. I don't want to minimise the awfulness of that. But it is not the same as people being put on trains and shipped to their deaths. Israel is not putting thousands of people in concentration camps and starving them, forcing them to work, shaving their heads, stealing their possessions and then killing them on an industrial scale. Civilians are not being specifically targeted, they are caught in the crossfire.

I think I'll have to bow out now. Hope you have a good evening.

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I don't agree to compare what's happening in Gaza to the Holocaust but to suggest what is happening in Gaza is only bombs dropping on people is to ignore everything else that is happening which is minimising at best. There has been a complete destruction of the infrastructure including schools, hospitals, businesses etc. There have been restrictions in humanitarian aid which contributes to starvation malnutrition and disease which disproportionately impacts children, there is no functioning medical and healthcare system, people are being displaced and forced to move time and again. The social fabric of Gaza has been destroyed.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 31/10/2024 16:49

They have even refused entry to Gaza to a surgeon, according to the Guardian this week. That is just evil.

2024onwardsandup · 31/10/2024 16:48

@Dulra are you honestly saying that Hamas is not a existential threat to Israel and the Jewish people?

2024onwardsandup · 31/10/2024 16:46

@Lalaloveya this is what I mean….how is it imaginary???? What do you think Hamas was doing on 7 October??? What do think it would do if Israel had no military or defence???

MaggieBsBoat · 31/10/2024 16:45

bellinisurge · 29/10/2024 15:31

It's horrendous. Give the hostages back. It ends.

Except it won’t.
Fascist leader wants Lebensraum. Classic.
The people, Israelis or Palestinians are almost irrelevant.

Dulra · 31/10/2024 16:45

Lalaloveya · 31/10/2024 16:43

This argument is made frequently here.

I suppose the imaginary destruction or genocide of a country/enclave and its people is not as pressing a concern as the real one that's happening now in Gaza.

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💯

Lalaloveya · 31/10/2024 16:43

2024onwardsandup · 31/10/2024 16:37

Do people understand that Hamas started aim is to destroy Israel and the Jewish people?

What do people think would have happened if Hamas had been successful in an invasion of Israel on 7 October? They weren’t calling people to warn them…

not to mention how Hamas has sacrificed Palestinians to hide behind

there is no doubt there are very real awful things Netanyahu and conhave done

but it baffles me that people don’t acknowledge that Hamas EXPLICITLY states that its aim IS genocide of the Jewish people

This argument is made frequently here.

I suppose the imaginary destruction or genocide of a country/enclave and its people is not as pressing a concern as the real one that's happening now in Gaza.

Usernamesareboring1 · 31/10/2024 16:42

Scirocco · 31/10/2024 16:30

And these things will continue, and escalate, for as long as the Israeli government and IDF can get away with it.

People still thinking that this can be stopped by the release of hostages clearly haven't been either listening to what Israeli politicians are saying, or watching what the IDF and 'settlers' are doing.

When someone shows you what they are, believe them.

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Exactly! There is reams of evidence at this point from soldiers, politicians and settlers spelling out very clearly their intentions for Gaza. A settler even said "we need to kill them all" on live TV and it wasn't even the quote used in the headline, that's how normalised this genocide is.

LetThereBeLove · 31/10/2024 16:39

2024onwardsandup · 31/10/2024 16:37

Do people understand that Hamas started aim is to destroy Israel and the Jewish people?

What do people think would have happened if Hamas had been successful in an invasion of Israel on 7 October? They weren’t calling people to warn them…

not to mention how Hamas has sacrificed Palestinians to hide behind

there is no doubt there are very real awful things Netanyahu and conhave done

but it baffles me that people don’t acknowledge that Hamas EXPLICITLY states that its aim IS genocide of the Jewish people

Baffles me too.

Scirocco · 31/10/2024 16:38

These men, and others, are explicitly clear about where they stand and what they intend. Without external intervention, they will continue as long as it remains feasible for them to do so. So, if the voices calling for peace in Israel cannot stop them alone, the world should help by exerting pressure for a ceasefire and peace process.

2024onwardsandup · 31/10/2024 16:37

Do people understand that Hamas started aim is to destroy Israel and the Jewish people?

What do people think would have happened if Hamas had been successful in an invasion of Israel on 7 October? They weren’t calling people to warn them…

not to mention how Hamas has sacrificed Palestinians to hide behind

there is no doubt there are very real awful things Netanyahu and conhave done

but it baffles me that people don’t acknowledge that Hamas EXPLICITLY states that its aim IS genocide of the Jewish people

Scirocco · 31/10/2024 16:35

For example...

Scirocco · 31/10/2024 16:34

For example...

Scirocco · 31/10/2024 16:32

For example...

Scirocco · 31/10/2024 16:30

Usernamesareboring1 · 31/10/2024 16:06

I think it's a shame if you bow out considering it doesn't sound like you are aware fully of the reports coming out of the region which would explain why PP are making an equivalence.

They are putting people in detention camps and starving and torturing them. There are videos of IDF soldiers stealing the possessions of killed or detained Gazan civilians. Strapping dead children's toys to their bulldozers. They are targeting civilians. They are digging holes and placing women and children in them before telling them they must leave or they will be dead in that hole. Have you read any of the reports of the trauma IDF soldiers are reporting from for example "running over hundreds of alive people with bulldozers"?

No, it's not industrialised in the same way as the Holocaust, but we have to remember it didn't start that way either.

Show quote history

And these things will continue, and escalate, for as long as the Israeli government and IDF can get away with it.

People still thinking that this can be stopped by the release of hostages clearly haven't been either listening to what Israeli politicians are saying, or watching what the IDF and 'settlers' are doing.

When someone shows you what they are, believe them.

NellieJean · 31/10/2024 16:21

dairydebris · 29/10/2024 18:32

I don't know why people on here keep insisting that the US and the UK 'make' Israel stop? It's not a playground at school. Israel is a sovereign nation. It does what it needs to to protect it's security. No one tells it what to do.

Hamas get stop this war any day by returning the hostages ( or their bodies ), surrendering, and admitting Israel's right to exist...

Still waiting for one of you to start that thread if you care so much about Palestinian lives....

This

Usernamesareboring1 · 31/10/2024 16:06

dairydebris · 31/10/2024 15:57

I know. It's the attempt to destroy in part or in whole a group of people. I know what genocide is. We can go back and forth on whether or not Gaza is suffering a genocide, I'm not debating that here.

It's the equating of the Holocaust with the war in Gaza that I cannot bear. Civilians are being bombed yes. I don't want to minimise the awfulness of that. But it is not the same as people being put on trains and shipped to their deaths. Israel is not putting thousands of people in concentration camps and starving them, forcing them to work, shaving their heads, stealing their possessions and then killing them on an industrial scale. Civilians are not being specifically targeted, they are caught in the crossfire.

I think I'll have to bow out now. Hope you have a good evening.

Show quote history

I think it's a shame if you bow out considering it doesn't sound like you are aware fully of the reports coming out of the region which would explain why PP are making an equivalence.

They are putting people in detention camps and starving and torturing them. There are videos of IDF soldiers stealing the possessions of killed or detained Gazan civilians. Strapping dead children's toys to their bulldozers. They are targeting civilians. They are digging holes and placing women and children in them before telling them they must leave or they will be dead in that hole. Have you read any of the reports of the trauma IDF soldiers are reporting from for example "running over hundreds of alive people with bulldozers"?

No, it's not industrialised in the same way as the Holocaust, but we have to remember it didn't start that way either.