How many more will Israel kill?

I think there has to be an acceptance from Israel that they don't get to choose who is in charge of what should be a sovereign state. Palestinians having a state means that they get self determination and Israel don't get to control them anymore. I understand that that is a scary thought for some Israelis but it has to happen at some point if peace ever stands a chance.

Do you think Palestinians like the Israeli government? Do you think hearing their ministers calling for a nakba and talking about eliminating them all is what they would choose? Do you think that Israelis coming for innocent Palestinians under the protection of the government, which they do every day(there was 3 incidences of settler violence towards Palestinians every day of 2023 prior to Oct 7) is what Palestinians should have to put up with?

What innocents on both sides have had to endure is awful but when does Israels meddling stop? What if they don't like the next government or the one after that? If Israel get to pick Palestinians government do they get to pick Israels because the idea is that they are both equal after all.

I don't think Hamas should be in power but if removing them means that Gaza has to be destroyed and it has been and 2million people are left severely traumatised without anything left for them to live for then no I don't think getting rid of Hamas should come first.

I dont know. Would you like me to research that before you answer any of my questions about how Israel should deal with Hamas?

OK. So you think Israel should cease fire. Who should they negotiate with during the peace process?

Fair points.
How about this guy, Khalil al-Hayya?
Did you see the BBC interview a few weeks ago? He's pretty high up, and still denying 7 October and Israel's right to exist in Israel.
Perhaps he could speak for the rest of his Hamas brothers, surrender, give back the hostages, agree that the land can be shared...

I actually would prefer to see them all rot in jail than be killed and risk creating martyrs.

But do you think Israel should cease fire and allow him to be in charge of a Palestinian state on its borders? Should Israel negotiate with him?

Or do you think they should surrender, give back hostages, etc etc?

Then peace process start?

I think a halt to military activities is a good place to start for peace yes... the current situation is what it is, no? We can't rewind time and start from 6 October, can we? We can only start with a razed Gaza can't we? Or do you think they shouldn't even try?

Can you answer my specific questions about Hamas?

You can't just keep brushing over the destruction of Gaza and slaughter of innocent civilians as "getting rid of Hamas" on the way to a peace process though. Even if the IDF manage to kill every Hamas member, do you think that Gaza having absolutely no infrastructure left, whole family lines wiped out and the surviving civilians left with whatever health conditions, disabilities and trauma from months of starvation and untreated medical problems is a starting point for peace?

I think for as long as Israel continues to occupy Palestinian land and brutalise Palestinians there'll always be a Hamas so I don't think that destroying Gaza is going to solve the Hamas problem.

I agree that giving Palestinians land for their own state somewhere inside of Israel is part of the peace process.

However, I feel getting rid of Hamas comes first. Otherwise Hamas keeps coming for innocent Israelis.

Do you think Isreal should agree to a Palestinian state with Hamas in charge?

Do you agree that getting rid of Hamas is a prerequisite for peace?
And how should Hamas be gotten rid of?

Personally, I think that giving Palestinians back their land is the first step to peace. There cannot be peace whilst Israel insist on being occupiers. Would you feel at peace under military occupation? Sure Israel can change governments but all of these far right characters and all of their supporters arent just going to disappear out of government. They are voted in repeatedly.

If Israelis didn't want to be occupiers they wouldn't be but enough of them want to be or don't care that they are enough to change it. There are over 700,000 Israeli settlers. This isn't a small inconsequential thing. Some kind of fringe movement. It's 10% of their population that have actually chosen to be settlers. It is actually a minority view that the settlements are bad(35%). So long as Israelis hold this majority view that they are entitled to ride roughshod over Palestinians rights there will never be peace. Hamas can be dealt with but it won't change anything because people don't like having their homes and land stolen and their basic rights taken away from.

What question? How could we possibly get rid of Hamas without also destroying Gaza and harming everyone who lives there?

Ah OK. So, are you going to answer any of my questions? Or do you require me to agree with your appraisal beforehand?

Yes, the second one. The one that exists.

Which genocide were you referring to?
The one Hamas repeatedly say they'd like to carry out on the Jews but lack the resources to carry out?
Or possible one that Israel may or may not be currently carrying out, opinions may differ?

You have 2 groups of people with an extremely complicated history, both led by governments with ideologies opposed to peace. There's a war going on between these 2 groups that I think most posters on here would like to see finished.

In order for that conflict to end, Hamas have to be removed from power, or as by their own admission, they'll keep commuting atrocities like 7 October.

Getting rid of Hamas is the first step on the road to peace.

How do you think Hamas should be gotten rid of?

You're leaving out the genocide part. I think it's quite important and relevant.

I read both of the articles above.
Interestingly both seemed to me to say that there's little point in arguing about the semantics of whether or not it's settler colonialism etc, the important thing is to find the way forward.

There can be no way forward with the death cult Hamas.

If not by Israel's war, how does anyone think Hamas can be gotten rid of? They allow no opposition, no elections. They're an evil parasite sucking on the blood of their own citizens.

Conversely, Netanyahu can be gotten rid of by democratic process.

There's 2 parties at war here. Hamas and Isreal. Surely we can agree that Hamas is the most evil? If not by war, how do we get rid of them?

Once Hamas is gone, Netanyahu is gone, perhaps both sides can move forward. Both sides have a rightful claim on the land in my opinion.

It's hard to argue with much of the article, particularly:

“The most famous Zionist intellectual of the early 20th century, Asher Ginsberg, who went under the pen name of Ahad Ha-am, was against the establishment of a Jewish state,” Penslar told Vox. “He was very well aware of the Arab population of Palestine, and he said, ‘look, you know, we basically can’t get these people against us. We can’t anger them, we have to live with these people.’ And so he advocated forming much smaller communities that would not antagonize the Arab populations.”

You have just proved my point different opinions on it. You support one, someone else will support another.

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/decolonization-narrative-dangerous-and-false/675799/