How many more will Israel kill?

@Limesodaagain true, but that's deflecting from the much more disturbing similarities.

I was pretty careful to state 1930s Europe just because of the international and imperial aspect. There may not exact analogies but all the fundamentals are there. Both 1930s European politics and current ME troubles are rooted in the conflicts, empires and imperial attitudes of the past.

There may well be some parallels but there are also some significant differences ( eg no equivalent of an October 7th attack on 1930’s Germany / no equivalent of Hamas / no equivalent of Iranian funding of terrorism) so the comparison is not particularly apt.

It is also the case that many Jewish people have great sympathy for the terrible suffering the Palestinians are enduring but comparing Israel to 1930s Germany is taking the legitimate criticism and using it to poke at a very raw and sensitive wound.
It’s not necessary and it doesn’t help anyone.

The videos on social media of the 2 injured children whose mother was killed in front of them (today? I'm not sure when exactly) are breaking my heart. I can't repost from Instagram but the video is on the Eye on Palestine account.

The trauma in the little girl's face is just shocking.

Such a tragedy. So needless. I can't bear what this is doing to so many children.

You would think so.

How can two people say the same thing, but one person is inaccurate and ahistorical but the other isn't? Depending on what is being said, it might be that something is insensitive for someone to say, but surely accuracy is accuracy (or inaccuracy) regardless of the person saying it...

@SharonEllis I don't recall seeing a post here that compares the current war with the Holocaust. I mentioned it in the context of the formation of Israel and it would be almost impossible to deny it was a factor.

The clear parallels with 1930s Europe are not just in the ultra right wing nationalism, genocide and ethnic cleansing, but especially the international appeasement.

There will be no lasting peace until Israel recognizes the sacrifices made by the Palestinians in order for it to exist.

I welcome constructive criticism, regardless of what or who is criticised because that's how you learn and develop.
I also tend to think that, if an Holocaust survivor makes the comparison, there must be some truth in it. They need to be listened to because they know what they are talking about. Are they wrong? If not, then others stating it cannot be either.

Of course holocaust survivors who experienced it can make the comparison. Others shouldnt, just as we all say things about our own family, or community, or race, that would be unacceptable for others to say. And my point was its unhelpful because in the comments that were being made here it didn't add anything. If something is objectively wrong say so & explain why. As this conversation has shown just referreing to 1930s fascism is basically a dog whistle, it doesnt expand anyone's understanding and doesn't support a constructive conversation.

I have come to the same conclusion too but I feel that we need to challenge their beliefs, even if we don't get through.

But its lazy, offensive, inaccurate & ahistorical to make comparisons with 1930s fascism.
Thirteen Holocaust survivors have made the comparison. Do you think they are being lazy, inaccurate and ahistorical?
Thirteen Holocaust survivors compare Zionist policies to those of the Nazis | Jewish Voice for Labour

Of course the problem on the other side is not just Netanyahu. (The same way it's not just Putin in Russia). But BN's government is extreme.
My point is not that "it's a good idea to change him", but rather that negotiations with him have led to nothing and will not result in peace simply because his position is too compromised.

You don't understand at all. Your posts are steeped in the belief that Israelis come first not that both are two equal parties and that belief seems to be so deep that you don't even properly comprehend what posters are saying to you.

Your post makes very little sense in relation to mine because of that and discussion with you won't be productive.

This. Hamas are choosing for this to continue by not only holding hostages to Ransome but also dead corpses as hostages too.

Your suggestion is not workable.
Hamas was a military AND a political force in Gaza. Israel was negotiating with Hamas, who else could they? But then Israel did not agree on the conditions and assassinated the person they were negotiating with. In Tehran of all places.
Not to mention none of us have any decision power, your question is now pointless. Israel showed to everyone that they do not want to negotiate.
Any other side would be out of their mind to even try to negotiate with the current Israeli government as you cannot trust their word.

As for removing Hamas - the problem existed before Hamas, so the root problem is not hamas. Palestinians need their own contiguous state.

You know the reason Palestinians in Gaza don't get to choose their government? It's because Hamas doesn't run elections. It's because Hamas murders it's political opponents.

You know who does get to vote for their government? The Palestinian Israelis in Israel proper.

I have to go now but I'm still yet to get a straight answer on whether or not Israel should negotiate with Hamas.

And I can't believe not one person is agreeing that Hamas' surrender and release of hostages should come first... it walks like a duck.

See my post above. There is still leadership and they're still denying 7 Oct and the right of Israel to exist.

There's no one to negotiate with anymore, Sinwar knew where all the hostages were and he's dead after replacing Haniyeh.

True to form and keeping to their modus operandi over the 70+ years the IDF have killed all the people with authority, so there will be no negotiations.

Right now just like in Lebanon, it's America and Israel negotiating between themselves then offering terms that they know will be rejected. For example demanding Lebanon disarm and the IDF retain the authority to bomb it anytime they see fit.

Unfortunately, it's going to be more war.

I agree 💯 with this point about empowering moderate voices . I think we need moderate voices on both sides. It’s very difficult for people to be reasonable and moderate when they feel very afraid so there needs to be a real feeling of security (for both sides) so that moderation can thrive.

Are you going to answer any of my questions?
Again straw man. I am not proposing an endless cycle of violence. I am not proposing Israel kill every last Hamas pos. I even said, I'd prefer they rot in jail.
I'm proposing Hamas surrender, give back hostages and walk back their absolute refusal to admit the right of Isreal to exist.

Then the peace process, hopefully towards a 2ss can start. Both groups have a claim on the land.

Everyone here is calling for Israeli ceasefire.
I'm calling for Hamas surrender.

Both end the war.

For the 6th time. Should Isreal negotiate with Hamas?