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Conflict in the Middle East

Do You See the Conflict in the Middle East as a Religious War or a Land Grab?

169 replies

Oodiks · 28/10/2024 20:34

Is it a religious war, with Iran, Hezbollah, the Houthis, &c supporting Hamas aims of destroying the 'Zionist Project', aka the Jewish homeland, and Global Jihad, or is it a land grab by Israel?

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PurpleChrayn · 28/10/2024 21:58

Why would Israel have withdrawn from Gaza in 2005 if it was bent on a land grab?

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 28/10/2024 21:56

If it is a religious war, then it is against Muslims and Christians both.

By November 2023, the IDF had killed 10% of all Gazan Christians and flattened the 3rd oldest church in the world.

In Lebanon, Christian majority villages in the north have been targeted as well.

Martymcfly24 · 28/10/2024 21:53

Land grab dressed up as "self defence" against Muslims/brown people so it's more palatable for all the Americans who see their tax dollars literally going up in smoke.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 28/10/2024 21:50

ReshyAmina · 28/10/2024 21:42

There’s your answer. Buying land is very different from stealing land. If this was a religious war, then it would have been happening from as early as 1948 as you say.

The Nakba started in 1947 and was mostly ethnic cleansing and massacres of Palestinian villages. The purchase of land was done prior to WWII.

Scirocco · 28/10/2024 21:49

Oodiks · 28/10/2024 21:32

There's an 'other' option if you disagree with the given options.

Which doesn't change that your question and the options provided are biased. They're also overly simplistic for a complex situation. If you want an actually useful response from your poll, you need to ask a question that doesn't in itself skew readers' reactions and to present meaningful answers. It looks like all your question is trying to achieve is to further add to the "Muslims are antisemitic and pose religiously motivated threats to people" stereotyping which is so harmful and unhelpful, without so much as a mention of any religious extremism which could be factoring in to how Israel is choosing to act. Even the "maybe Israel could be in the wrong a bit" option minimises the contributing factors.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 28/10/2024 21:42

Oodiks · 28/10/2024 21:35

Not so, I referenced the Hamas charter, you sidestepped so it looks like you don't have a problem with it.

You referenced the long superseded old charter if we are going to be accurate.

ReshyAmina · 28/10/2024 21:42

Oodiks · 28/10/2024 21:31

Why 1967, why not 1948? Why not earlier, when Zionists started buying land in the area that was controlled by the Ottomans to escape persecution in Europe?

There’s your answer. Buying land is very different from stealing land. If this was a religious war, then it would have been happening from as early as 1948 as you say.

Oodiks · 28/10/2024 21:35

Kakeandkake · 28/10/2024 21:16

Not even one page in and the OP is already putting words in people's mouths that they haven't said. Oh dear.

Not so, I referenced the Hamas charter, you sidestepped so it looks like you don't have a problem with it.

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SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 28/10/2024 21:33

Oodiks · 28/10/2024 21:10

You don't think that view of Muslims and Palestinians might come from decades of experience, including the people of Gaza voting (back when they could vote) for a party who's charter at that time explicitly portrayed the Israeli Palestinian conflict as a front in an eternal struggle between Muslims and Jews?

No?

A charter written in the wake of the Sabra and Shatila massacres done under the watch of the invading IDF who brought in a Lebanese militia and egged them on with lies about these refugee camps being full of terrorists? Wow, can’t imagine why they’d think that.

Oodiks · 28/10/2024 21:32

Scirocco · 28/10/2024 21:29

A nicely biased question and voting option, there, with no mention of any other religious or political factors.

There's an 'other' option if you disagree with the given options.

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Oodiks · 28/10/2024 21:31

StMarieforme · 28/10/2024 21:24

It's been going on since 1967.

Why 1967, why not 1948? Why not earlier, when Zionists started buying land in the area that was controlled by the Ottomans to escape persecution in Europe?

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Scirocco · 28/10/2024 21:29

A nicely biased question and voting option, there, with no mention of any other religious or political factors.

ReshyAmina · 28/10/2024 21:25

sprigatito · 28/10/2024 21:20

Palestinians have backed armed resistance groups because they have been living under active oppression for more than 70 years. Even the most superficial research into the subject will show that there have been atrocities committed against them throughout that period; massacres, extrajudicial killings, deprivation of food, water, medical care, freedom of movement, mass incarceration without trial, torture, it's an obvious recipe for radicalisation and armed resistance.

The creation of Israel was the last real settler-colonial project. The last time the Western powers got their pencil out, carved up someone else's land and their attitude to the indigenous population was essentially "well, we'll just clear these brown things out of the way". We, and unfortunately the Palestinians, are reaping the rewards of that repulsive act of racist arrogance.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

StMarieforme · 28/10/2024 21:24

Hoppinggreen · 28/10/2024 20:37

Land grab 100%
Unfortunately Hamas has given Israel the excuse it needed with its horrifc behaviour last october

It's been going on since 1967.

Kendodd · 28/10/2024 21:24

Oodiks · 28/10/2024 21:13

I used 'land grab' because I've seen that terminology used on these boards.

Do you really think religion is an 'honorable' cause? The Crusades? The Troubles?

No I don't think religious wars or crimes are honorable, that's why I put it in quotation marks.

StMarieforme · 28/10/2024 21:23

Greedy land grab.

ReshyAmina · 28/10/2024 21:23

Oodiks · 28/10/2024 21:10

You don't think that view of Muslims and Palestinians might come from decades of experience, including the people of Gaza voting (back when they could vote) for a party who's charter at that time explicitly portrayed the Israeli Palestinian conflict as a front in an eternal struggle between Muslims and Jews?

No?

Putting aside the legitimacy of the election, it’s a chicken and egg situation. Perhaps if Israel hadn’t terrorised Palestinians for decades, taking their homes and killing many innocent Palestinians in the process too, a party that promised freedom from that wouldn’t have been so appealing to Palestinians. Claiming people hate Israel because it’s a Jewish state is simply a smokescreen for Israel’s behaviour.

I’m glad the whole world is finally seeing what Israel is really like. But whether it will change anything in the long run, I doubt it.

SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice · 28/10/2024 21:22

Land Grab & Genocide
Justified as self defence

Liv999 · 28/10/2024 21:21

It's a land grab, it's very obvious what israels plan is

sprigatito · 28/10/2024 21:20

Palestinians have backed armed resistance groups because they have been living under active oppression for more than 70 years. Even the most superficial research into the subject will show that there have been atrocities committed against them throughout that period; massacres, extrajudicial killings, deprivation of food, water, medical care, freedom of movement, mass incarceration without trial, torture, it's an obvious recipe for radicalisation and armed resistance.

The creation of Israel was the last real settler-colonial project. The last time the Western powers got their pencil out, carved up someone else's land and their attitude to the indigenous population was essentially "well, we'll just clear these brown things out of the way". We, and unfortunately the Palestinians, are reaping the rewards of that repulsive act of racist arrogance.

Lalaloveya · 28/10/2024 21:18

Maybe the poll isn't going as they anticipated.

Kakeandkake · 28/10/2024 21:16

Not even one page in and the OP is already putting words in people's mouths that they haven't said. Oh dear.

Oodiks · 28/10/2024 21:15

@Kakeandkake so, you don't have any issue with the original Hamas charter?

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Kakeandkake · 28/10/2024 21:13

Oodiks · 28/10/2024 21:10

You don't think that view of Muslims and Palestinians might come from decades of experience, including the people of Gaza voting (back when they could vote) for a party who's charter at that time explicitly portrayed the Israeli Palestinian conflict as a front in an eternal struggle between Muslims and Jews?

No?

Israelis voted for Netanyahu again and again and again who is the worst prime minister the country has ever seen in the short time it has been around. The same prime minister who made it crystal clear that he would not allow the Palestinians to have their own state and they would forever live oppressed.