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Conflict in the Middle East

And so it begins…

31 replies

TakeMe2Insanity · 22/10/2024 20:00

Danielle Weiss has got 700 families ready to settle Gaza many on mumsnet claimed this wasn’t possible. Well she has said it again. I appreciate she is the far right but they seem to have more voice, power etc. This was always about land.

www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/far-right-activist-after-oct-7-palestinians-have-lost-the-right-to-reside-in-gaza/

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myearthisflat · 26/10/2024 17:02

Sheri99 · 26/10/2024 03:19

"Majority (US voters) are inward looking...". Are you SERIOUS?

What makes you think otherwise?
Which country with free elections does not primarily care about what happens IN that country?

PeasfullPerson · 26/10/2024 12:05

Here is a brief article about fascist movements and how they appeal to people’s psychological needs. This seems like a good place to put it.

It seems to have been written about the US election, but it could be applied to the settlers and extremists being discussed above, or those that were involved in 7th Oct.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/a-logical-take/202410/the-psychological-markers-of-fascism

The Psychological Markers of Fascism

What psychological traits define fascism? How do leaders manipulate followers through nostalgia, violence, and black-and-white thinking?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/a-logical-take/202410/the-psychological-markers-of-fascism

Auvergne63 · 26/10/2024 11:55

IAmAHomewardBounder · 25/10/2024 20:05

Whose plan?

The Israeli government. What are you trying to imply?

Kendodd · 26/10/2024 09:49

Sheri99 · 26/10/2024 03:16

Where do you think Trump would have "zero sympathy for Palestinians?". That is ridiculous. I'd venture to guess 90% of Americans have sympathy for Palestinian people or anyone being manipulated by terrorists. Americans deplore terrorists, as does Trump, as does Harris. The best thing anyone can DO for the Palestinians is destroy terrorists so they can't USE the Palestinian's situation any more. How is the bombing losing the current Us admin support "from Muslims"? Your statements make so little sense at all.

This is just one link, polling talked about on this is from August, more recent polling shows a bigger shift to Trump by Muslim and Arab Americans. There are many other reports on this.
I don't believe there is much chance of a ceasefire before the US election if continued bombing by Israel moves the polls away from Harris.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xejx07exro

Scirocco · 26/10/2024 08:09

Sheri99 · 26/10/2024 03:16

Where do you think Trump would have "zero sympathy for Palestinians?". That is ridiculous. I'd venture to guess 90% of Americans have sympathy for Palestinian people or anyone being manipulated by terrorists. Americans deplore terrorists, as does Trump, as does Harris. The best thing anyone can DO for the Palestinians is destroy terrorists so they can't USE the Palestinian's situation any more. How is the bombing losing the current Us admin support "from Muslims"? Your statements make so little sense at all.

Trump has demonstrated clear anti-Muslim values and racist values. Family members of his have spoken openly about the land value of Gaza and, even before this conflict, made comments about how it would make financial sense to displace Palestinians, annex Gaza and build nice coastal properties. He has a track record of being in supportive of occupation and annexation in the Occupied Territories. There has been no evidence of any shift in his values or behaviour in these or other relevant areas.

The US has a track record of killing and imprisoning large numbers of Muslims. Trust in its internal and external justice processes, military conduct, etc is pretty low - not just among Muslim groups in the US but around the world.

The current administration is losing support from Muslim demographic groups because they (we) see the anti-Muslim biases influencing decision-making, the media and the responses to a humanitarian crisis inflicted upon innocent people. The US has had a decades-long policy of supporting Israel in occupation and oppression of a majority-Muslim population and now they're continuing to facilitate harms against that population, providing huge amounts of lethal weapons despite the growing evidence of these being used to commit war crimes against a majority-Muslim population.

I have friends in the US, across red and blue states, urban and rural areas, from multiple faiths and backgrounds. They are all clear that the US is not safe for Muslim visitors or citizens, that the current administration is facilitating the attacks on innocent people in Palestine, and that Trump will make things worse for Muslims, not better.

Sheri99 · 26/10/2024 03:19

Dulra · 25/10/2024 11:03

I don't think foreign policy ever features much in US elections the majority are very inward looking so it is unlikely to cause much change to how people vote

"Majority (US voters) are inward looking...". Are you SERIOUS?

Sheri99 · 26/10/2024 03:16

Kendodd · 25/10/2024 10:30

I was wondering about the continuing and very heavy bombing by Israel might, partly, be an attempt to influence the US election?
In that, I have little doubt Israel wants Trump in the White House. He would have next to zero sympathy for Palestinians. The continuing bombing is losing the current US administration support from American Muslims. They are blaming KH for not stopping it and turning towards Trump by way of punishing her. This is ideal for Israel.

Where do you think Trump would have "zero sympathy for Palestinians?". That is ridiculous. I'd venture to guess 90% of Americans have sympathy for Palestinian people or anyone being manipulated by terrorists. Americans deplore terrorists, as does Trump, as does Harris. The best thing anyone can DO for the Palestinians is destroy terrorists so they can't USE the Palestinian's situation any more. How is the bombing losing the current Us admin support "from Muslims"? Your statements make so little sense at all.

Kendodd · 25/10/2024 23:38

PeasfullPerson · 25/10/2024 19:01

I can’t imagine wanting to destroy another families lives and home so that I could build myself a new one there. I still find it hard to grasp how cruel people can be.

Yes, I agree.
And both sides are guilty of that. The amount of blood that has been shed is disgusting, no land on earth is worth all those lives.

IAmAHomewardBounder · 25/10/2024 20:05

thatone · 25/10/2024 19:10

This was their plan all along. It is horrifying that the world is not only standing by but also arming these genocidal occupiers.

Whose plan?

thatone · 25/10/2024 19:10

This was their plan all along. It is horrifying that the world is not only standing by but also arming these genocidal occupiers.

PeasfullPerson · 25/10/2024 19:01

I can’t imagine wanting to destroy another families lives and home so that I could build myself a new one there. I still find it hard to grasp how cruel people can be.

Dulra · 25/10/2024 11:03

Kendodd · 25/10/2024 10:30

I was wondering about the continuing and very heavy bombing by Israel might, partly, be an attempt to influence the US election?
In that, I have little doubt Israel wants Trump in the White House. He would have next to zero sympathy for Palestinians. The continuing bombing is losing the current US administration support from American Muslims. They are blaming KH for not stopping it and turning towards Trump by way of punishing her. This is ideal for Israel.

I don't think foreign policy ever features much in US elections the majority are very inward looking so it is unlikely to cause much change to how people vote

Lalaloveya · 25/10/2024 10:34

Kendodd · 25/10/2024 10:30

I was wondering about the continuing and very heavy bombing by Israel might, partly, be an attempt to influence the US election?
In that, I have little doubt Israel wants Trump in the White House. He would have next to zero sympathy for Palestinians. The continuing bombing is losing the current US administration support from American Muslims. They are blaming KH for not stopping it and turning towards Trump by way of punishing her. This is ideal for Israel.

I'm not sure if it's deliberate but it certainly works for them, for the reason you've mentioned.

I think they're trying to ethnically cleanse the north mainly though. That's the primary goal at the moment.

Kendodd · 25/10/2024 10:30

I was wondering about the continuing and very heavy bombing by Israel might, partly, be an attempt to influence the US election?
In that, I have little doubt Israel wants Trump in the White House. He would have next to zero sympathy for Palestinians. The continuing bombing is losing the current US administration support from American Muslims. They are blaming KH for not stopping it and turning towards Trump by way of punishing her. This is ideal for Israel.

Kendodd · 25/10/2024 10:24

I'm not surprised.
But there are extremists on both sides of this. I'm sure those settlers have loads of support in Israel and would ideally settle (and expel all Palestinians) the whole of the West Bank and wider area as well. Equally plenty of Palestinians and their (extremist) sympathisers would wipe out every Israeli from the whole region. The problem we have is that, on both sides, the extremists seem to be in charge.

Dulra · 25/10/2024 09:04

IAmAHomewardBounder · 25/10/2024 08:55

It's interesting how Hamas aren't representative at all of all the people in Gaza, however this fringe extremist group apparently represents all of Israel.

however this fringe extremist group apparently represents all of Israel.

No one suggests they do but they are being supported and encouraged by Israeli government ministers and also protected by the IDF. The governments support suggests that it could be forming part of their government policy so may become a reality which is what people are scared of. I was encouraged to see protesters at their conference the other day and hopefully those voices will get louder.

IAmAHomewardBounder · 25/10/2024 08:55

It's interesting how Hamas aren't representative at all of all the people in Gaza, however this fringe extremist group apparently represents all of Israel.

Lalaloveya · 25/10/2024 08:50

Sheri99 · 25/10/2024 03:07

No. It is terrorist cleansing. The Palestinian people are being controlled by terrorists who need to be eliminated. There is no place in the world for terrorists, who hide behind people. Terrorists are cowards and fight with the intention of flaming the emotions of others to gain control; they are masters at using everyone.

Edited

What about the tens of thousands of civilians they've killed? And the millions who've been displaced? People in Northern Gaza are starving, are being attacked and killed in their tents as we speak. How is this helping them?

Scirocco · 25/10/2024 08:32

@Sheri99 if you consider this to be purely removing terrorists (and therefore not removing innocent Palestinian people from their homes), how do you make sense of 'settlers' preparing to move to Gaza, with the support of the political parties in government? How do you make sense of the government parties calling for the formation of a 'Greater Israel'?

MissyB1 · 25/10/2024 07:18

Sheri99 · 25/10/2024 03:07

No. It is terrorist cleansing. The Palestinian people are being controlled by terrorists who need to be eliminated. There is no place in the world for terrorists, who hide behind people. Terrorists are cowards and fight with the intention of flaming the emotions of others to gain control; they are masters at using everyone.

Edited

So you believe all the people dying, or the majority of people dying, including all the women and children, are terrorists? Really? Including the babies in incubators in the hospitals that get bombed? Including the healthcare staff? And the aid workers? If you don't believe that how do you justify their deaths?

Sheri99 · 25/10/2024 03:07

Lalaloveya · 22/10/2024 20:37

Another new way of saying "ethnic cleansing".

No. It is terrorist cleansing. The Palestinian people are being controlled by terrorists who need to be eliminated. There is no place in the world for terrorists, who hide behind people. Terrorists are cowards and fight with the intention of flaming the emotions of others to gain control; they are masters at using everyone.

anotherlevel · 23/10/2024 08:44

It's about land grabs, as we've all been saying. Many posters claimed that we were talking nonsense, that they were extremists, that it would never happen, and so on, but here we are, with a sizable number of families waiting like vultures to seize more land that isn't theirs. We cannot ignore these extremists because they have a voice and are doing a good job of expressing it. It's real; it's not a conspiracy.

They are already illegally occupying land that they have been ordered to return, but they only hear the phrase "take more" and it is obvious that this means nothing.

I'm eager to see how many posters will attempt to defend it and what justifications they will offer. But, whatever their motivation, it won't work, nor will the "but Hamas" argument.

Whatsinanamehey · 22/10/2024 20:54

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 20:30

Half the MKs from Likud attended. This wasn’t just a bunch of fringe extremists having a party by the Gaza border. It was supported by Netanyahu’s party and prominent ministers like Itmar Ben Gvir spoke at it saying that Gaza belongs to Israel and they need to have ‘voluntary migration’ to get rid of the Palestinians.

Edited

I think it was played down as a bunch of nutters, nothing to see here but this is not the case. There were many MK's in attendance with significant authority in Israel who are pushing their sinister agenda both within government and in the public.

EasterIssland · 22/10/2024 20:49

TakeMe2Insanity · 22/10/2024 20:00

Danielle Weiss has got 700 families ready to settle Gaza many on mumsnet claimed this wasn’t possible. Well she has said it again. I appreciate she is the far right but they seem to have more voice, power etc. This was always about land.

www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/far-right-activist-after-oct-7-palestinians-have-lost-the-right-to-reside-in-gaza/

Members of the government attended these demos as well. So these demos and the words said in them are even more dangerous.

MissyB1 · 22/10/2024 20:40

SummerFeverVenice · 22/10/2024 20:30

Half the MKs from Likud attended. This wasn’t just a bunch of fringe extremists having a party by the Gaza border. It was supported by Netanyahu’s party and prominent ministers like Itmar Ben Gvir spoke at it saying that Gaza belongs to Israel and they need to have ‘voluntary migration’ to get rid of the Palestinians.

Edited

That's what chilled me the most, the fact that members of the Israeli Government were there supporting the plan. I'm convinced that it will happen 😡