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Conflict in the Middle East

Why do Palestinian refugees have a separate refugee agency?

318 replies

Oodiks · 19/10/2024 20:49

Why is it that all other refugees come under the protection of the UNCHR and are resettled in another country if they cannot return home, but UNWRA keeps Palestinians in camps all over the Middle East and they are never offered the chance to resettle in their host countries?

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Oodiks · 23/10/2024 17:32

MissyB1 · 23/10/2024 17:30

Well it's all a moot point now isn't it? Because what possibility of education is there for the children in Gaza that manage to survive? No schools, no universities, and of course most of the staff and pupils are probably dead or at best missing.

Interesting that you brought up educational attainment only to deflect when proved wrong.

Cool, cool.

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MissyB1 · 23/10/2024 17:30

SharonEllis · 23/10/2024 17:25

If you look at the useful list in @Oodiks links you'll see it doesn't really correlate to levels of oppression. To achieve high levels you need organisational commitment as well as individual motivation. And there are always different factors at play. Cuba historically had super high literacy as part of their wanting to be seen to be a successful country with added benefit of making it easier to transmit propaganda. And as the link also shows literacy is only part of educational attainment. I would be interested to know a bit more about how such high literacy is achieved.

Edited

Well it's all a moot point now isn't it? Because what possibility of education is there for the children in Gaza that manage to survive? No schools, no universities, and of course most of the staff and pupils are probably dead or at best missing.

SharonEllis · 23/10/2024 17:25

MissyB1 · 23/10/2024 17:17

Oppressed people probably feel a high sense of motivation to put themselves in the best position possible within their circumstances. All credit to them for doing that.

If you look at the useful list in @Oodiks links you'll see it doesn't really correlate to levels of oppression. To achieve high levels you need organisational commitment as well as individual motivation. And there are always different factors at play. Cuba historically had super high literacy as part of their wanting to be seen to be a successful country with added benefit of making it easier to transmit propaganda. And as the link also shows literacy is only part of educational attainment. I would be interested to know a bit more about how such high literacy is achieved.

MagicChocolate · 23/10/2024 17:25

MissyB1 · 23/10/2024 17:17

Oppressed people probably feel a high sense of motivation to put themselves in the best position possible within their circumstances. All credit to them for doing that.

And probably the Haredim bring the Israeli average down

Dulra · 23/10/2024 17:21

herecomesautumn · 23/10/2024 17:03

I'm in awe of palestinians

A higher level of education. And in an open air prison too

Is there a reason why you would think they don't have access to schools and universities? Sorry did, they're rubble now and children have lost over a year of education and counting

Oodiks · 23/10/2024 17:19

Oodiks · 23/10/2024 16:01

Why 1946?

Until 1948 anyone, Jewish, Muslim, or Christian, who lived in the British Mandate in Palestine was a Palestinian.

You're advocating for a one state solution where Palestine is governed by the British again? Interesting.

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MissyB1 · 23/10/2024 17:17

herecomesautumn · 23/10/2024 17:03

I'm in awe of palestinians

A higher level of education. And in an open air prison too

Oppressed people probably feel a high sense of motivation to put themselves in the best position possible within their circumstances. All credit to them for doing that.

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herecomesautumn · 23/10/2024 17:03

I'm in awe of palestinians

A higher level of education. And in an open air prison too

Auvergne63 · 23/10/2024 16:27

Oodiks · 23/10/2024 16:09

You have evidence for this claim?

Literacy rate, adult total (% of people ages 15 and above) - West Bank and Gaza | Data
Israel is at 92%. Gaza 97%

Oodiks · 23/10/2024 16:09

Daftasabroom · 23/10/2024 11:10

Palestinians overall have a higher level of education than Israelis.

You have evidence for this claim?

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Oodiks · 23/10/2024 16:01

Daftasabroom · 23/10/2024 08:27

Ottoman control of the region was very different to that of the western powers that replaced it.

It's also absolutely preposterous to imply that being subjugated by one or another imperial power somehow means that there is no such place as Palestine, and by implication that Palestinians have no right to live in the places they have done during living memory.

But yes, maybe we should give it all back to the peoples and their descendants who lived there up until 1946, and have some external ME based actor administer and provide security.

Not a bad idea really.

Why 1946?

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SharonEllis · 23/10/2024 14:46

Daftasabroom · 23/10/2024 14:26

I think you're trying to frame Hamas as something they were never going be.

Ok, so what was your point about high levels of literacy? Not sure I understand. I agree that Hamas never had any intention of looking after its citizens.

inamarina · 23/10/2024 14:37

Daftasabroom · 23/10/2024 14:26

I think you're trying to frame Hamas as something they were never going be.

Why not though? Wouldn’t it have been their job as the government of Gaza?

Daftasabroom · 23/10/2024 14:26

SharonEllis · 23/10/2024 12:36

You've missed the point. Its unwra schools & ngo programmes that are responsible for that not so much hamas who have outsorced their responsibility for their citizens.

I think you're trying to frame Hamas as something they were never going be.

Dulra · 23/10/2024 13:27

The only UN member looking to shut UNWRA are Israel, without any consultation with those that would be directly impacted by this so I'm definitely sceptical about the reason they're looking for its closure

Dulra · 23/10/2024 13:23

Alwayslookonthe · 23/10/2024 12:43

@Dulra

I will admit I am not an expert on this

Clearly.

I haven't posted anything that isn't from UN websites so they clearly aren't either

Alwayslookonthe · 23/10/2024 12:43

@Dulra

I will admit I am not an expert on this

Clearly.

SharonEllis · 23/10/2024 12:36

Daftasabroom · 23/10/2024 11:10

Palestinians overall have a higher level of education than Israelis.

You've missed the point. Its unwra schools & ngo programmes that are responsible for that not so much hamas who have outsorced their responsibility for their citizens.

Daftasabroom · 23/10/2024 11:10

TheABC · 23/10/2024 09:48

From what I can see, UNRWA is the effective government for the Palestinians, letting Hamas and PLO off the hook for their corruption as they know someone else will always pick up the pieces. Why bother building schools instead of buying guns, when the world is willing to do it instead?

If/when a 2 state solution comes about, UNRWA will probably be folded into the Government's state apparatus.

Palestinians overall have a higher level of education than Israelis.

Lalaloveya · 23/10/2024 10:21

TheABC · 23/10/2024 09:48

From what I can see, UNRWA is the effective government for the Palestinians, letting Hamas and PLO off the hook for their corruption as they know someone else will always pick up the pieces. Why bother building schools instead of buying guns, when the world is willing to do it instead?

If/when a 2 state solution comes about, UNRWA will probably be folded into the Government's state apparatus.

Well, you're seeing wrong. It's usually best to try to stick to facts rather than personal speculation on these matters.

Dulra · 23/10/2024 10:16

TheABC · 23/10/2024 09:48

From what I can see, UNRWA is the effective government for the Palestinians, letting Hamas and PLO off the hook for their corruption as they know someone else will always pick up the pieces. Why bother building schools instead of buying guns, when the world is willing to do it instead?

If/when a 2 state solution comes about, UNRWA will probably be folded into the Government's state apparatus.

They are not an effective government, where is your evidence for that?
Most countries if you look have some sort of NGO doing pieces of specific work with regards development, social inclusion and so on. This is not unique to Gaza or the West Bank

TheABC · 23/10/2024 09:48

From what I can see, UNRWA is the effective government for the Palestinians, letting Hamas and PLO off the hook for their corruption as they know someone else will always pick up the pieces. Why bother building schools instead of buying guns, when the world is willing to do it instead?

If/when a 2 state solution comes about, UNRWA will probably be folded into the Government's state apparatus.

PeasfullPerson · 23/10/2024 09:24

‘UNRWA and UNHCR also have distinct functions. UNRWA is a direct service provider. At the core of these services are education and health services, essential for the human development of Palestine refugees. UNHCR is not a direct service provider, it is not set up to be one, and it neitherhas the staff numbers required to deliver these services nor the requisite experience. Direct comparisons of the budgets of the two agencies and the staff required to deliver the respective mandates are deceptive. UNRWA operates as a quasi-state body delivering services akin to a state, while UNHCR offers temporary protection and assistance. A like-for-like comparison is disingenuous.
Even if Palestine refugees were to fall under UNHCR’s mandate, they would still be Palestine refugees and retain their rights under General Assembly resolution 194, pending a just and lasting solution to their plight. Any durable solution for refugees sought by UNHCR would still depend on all relevant parties agreeing to such a solution.’

PeasfullPerson · 23/10/2024 09:23

From the UNWRA website, on why UNWRA exists.

‘UNHCR does not have a mandate over Palestine refugees within the UNRWA fields of operations (Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip). This is not a decision on the part of either UNRWA or UNHCR, but rather the result of decisions of the international community enshrined in the 1951 Refugee Convention and the UNHCR Statute (adopted by the General Assembly).
In 1949, the UN General Assembly established two different UN refugee agencies – the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) – to respond to distinct refugee crises. The UN General Assembly provided these Agencies with complementary mandates to assist and protect refugees, as laid out in relevant instruments, including the Statute of UNHCR (adopted by a General Assembly resolution) and the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees (an international treaty). Neither UNRWA nor UNHCR can unilaterally change these instruments.
The UNRWA mandate extends to the delivery of services to Palestine refugees within its five fields of operations: the West Bank (including East Jerusalem), the Gaza Strip, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan. Therefore, Palestine refugees within these fields do not fall under UNHCR’s mandate. However, UNHCR has a mandate regarding Palestine refugees when they are outside the UNRWA areas of operations in certain circumstances.’

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