Page 11 | "You see us burning, you stay silent..."

Scirocco · 2024-10-19T15:37:07+00:00

[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr54y0qplgvo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr54y0qplgvo]] Please, read, listen and see what is being done to innocent people here. Remember them. Now, perhaps more than at any previous time in history, we can easily know the human cost of hate and violence, and the human cost of looking away. Remember them. And remember all the other innocent people who have died and continue to die because of hatred and because of apathy.

Original poster

Scirocco · 21/10/2024 23:12

ssd · 21/10/2024 22:04

This thread and everything else makes me feel so powerless. I can march and donate money but it feels a drop in the ocean. No one listens to me. I hate what is being done to the Palestinian people. I hate what the IDF are doing. I hate the brutality and injustice of it all.

Thank you. JazakAllah khair.

You care, and that means a lot.

Right now, knowing that even just a few people might care is pretty much all that's keeping me going. So, thank you.

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Original poster

Scirocco · 21/10/2024 23:08

I'm impressed. In a thread about family torn apart and in which a poster has stated their own loved ones are dying in this conflict, people have already managed to cram an impressive amount of heartlessness in to just 4 pages.

And at this point, it's blatantly clear that people are no longer misunderstanding that there is a difference between Islamic and Islamist, and that people are using this as a deliberate tactic to cause more hurt for people already grieving.

If people have no interest in compassion for dead, dying and traumatised people on account of those people being Muslim or Palestinian, they had the option to ignore the thread, or even block it. Instead, they chose to post to derail, dismiss and stick the knife in further, knowing exactly what they were doing.

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JaneJeffer · 21/10/2024 22:24

.

"You see us burning, you stay silent..."

Auvergne63 · 21/10/2024 22:21

To the posters trying to derail this thread dedicated to remembering the innocent Palestinians who have endured more than you and I ever could, please don't.

Lalaloveya · 21/10/2024 22:17

wrongthinker · 21/10/2024 22:09

War is awful. But in this case it's obviously the only thing Israel can do to defend itself. If Hamas would give back the hostages and agree to a ceasefire then there's a chance of peace. If not, then Israel has to fight and win. The last thing the world needs is an empowered Islamic fundamentalist state run by terrorists. I wish Western governments were doing more to support Israel.

I still fail to see how bombing displaced people in tents and burning them alive is self-defence. And what more do you want the West to do? Surely arming Israel and turning a blind eye to war crime after war crime is enough "help"?

wrongthinker · 21/10/2024 22:09

War is awful. But in this case it's obviously the only thing Israel can do to defend itself. If Hamas would give back the hostages and agree to a ceasefire then there's a chance of peace. If not, then Israel has to fight and win. The last thing the world needs is an empowered Islamic fundamentalist state run by terrorists. I wish Western governments were doing more to support Israel.

ssd · 21/10/2024 22:04

This thread and everything else makes me feel so powerless. I can march and donate money but it feels a drop in the ocean. No one listens to me. I hate what is being done to the Palestinian people. I hate what the IDF are doing. I hate the brutality and injustice of it all.

RhannionKPSS · 21/10/2024 22:03

The death of any innocent diminishes all of us. It’s a pity people haven’t been marching in solidarity with all the victims of islamic extremism.

RhannionKPSS · 21/10/2024 21:59

I choose to remember those innocents murdered on Oct 7th, and those kidnapped by the death cult that is Islamic extremism, a cult which uses its children and innocent people as shields. Give back the hostages , or their bodies and a kind of peace will follow.

Original poster

Scirocco · 21/10/2024 21:45

mids2019 · 21/10/2024 21:20

Another thing we to have to avoid in my opinion is the thought that we collectively should have a colonial guilt in the UK for being part of the process of setting up the state of Israel. That is wrong.

It seems some people want to suggest we have an obligation to prioritise aid to this particular conflict (as opposed for example the Syrian conflict) as we are somehow partly to blame having governed the Palestinian mandate decades ago.

I agree aid need a to be supplied to Gazan civilians as far as possible but we don't have some sort of historical obligation to do this; aid should be given simply put of humanitarian compassion not as some sort of atonement.

There are other threads discussing aid, discussing politics and history. Leave that out of this for a moment. Look at this family. Look at them and see the people behind the statistics. See the face of the young man that the world watched burn to death.

I have spent most of my life giving a whole lot of my time, energy and heart to helping others in need. Now, as the world turns away and leaves my loved ones to die, all I'm asking of people is this:

Remember Us... Remember Them.

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mids2019 · 21/10/2024 21:20

Another thing we to have to avoid in my opinion is the thought that we collectively should have a colonial guilt in the UK for being part of the process of setting up the state of Israel. That is wrong.

It seems some people want to suggest we have an obligation to prioritise aid to this particular conflict (as opposed for example the Syrian conflict) as we are somehow partly to blame having governed the Palestinian mandate decades ago.

I agree aid need a to be supplied to Gazan civilians as far as possible but we don't have some sort of historical obligation to do this; aid should be given simply put of humanitarian compassion not as some sort of atonement.

Original poster

Scirocco · 21/10/2024 20:02

It's been made clear, repeatedly, that the release of the hostages will not stop Netanyahu's government, and a ceasefire involves everyone stopping trying to kill each other.

Wherever you sit politically, look at this family. Remember them. We cannot save them from what happened, but we can remember them. Many of the people dying in Palestine will have no burial or funeral, no family left to mourn them, no marker to show where they fell. We, the people who remain alive and in relative comfort, owe it to them to remember them. We owe it to them to recognise that what happened to them was wrong and did not have to happen. We owe it to them to see and remember what vengeance, dehumanisation and hate leads to.

Shaban was a toddler when Hamas took power in Gaza. His younger brother wasn't even born. There are thousands of children and young people like them across Gaza, being targeted and killed, or blown up or burned alive in air strikes, or suffering malnutrition and illness. They bear no responsibility for Hamas coming to power or for the atrocities committed by Hamas, yet they are being killed. If there were no alternative, it would still be tragic, as it always is when children die in conflicts. But there were alternatives and there are alternatives. And this is the course of action which has been chosen, defended, supported and facilitated. That is more than tragic. It's reprehensible. So, the world owes it to all the innocent people who are dying unnecessarily, to share their stories, read their names, and remember.

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Martymcfly24 · 21/10/2024 19:50

PurpleChrayn · 21/10/2024 19:17

One thing people can do is lobby for the release of the Israeli hostages, and for Hamas to surrender. Then the war can be over.

So it can return to the situation pre October 7th?

PurpleChrayn · 21/10/2024 19:17

One thing people can do is lobby for the release of the Israeli hostages, and for Hamas to surrender. Then the war can be over.

OhMaria2 · 21/10/2024 19:09

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OhMaria2 · 21/10/2024 18:59

SunriseMonsters · 19/10/2024 21:59

The neighbouring countries are assisting them as much as they can!

Hardly. Egypt kept its border firmly shut for months. Regimes in the region seem determined to inflame conflict further, as they do with each other, repeatedly. And will continue to do as long as their societies are "governed" by religious extremists.

Are you going to keep ignoring religious extremists in Israel. The ones in their government inflaming this? The lunatic settlers?

Firstgenfunc · 20/10/2024 20:34

Scirocco · 19/10/2024 22:41

Islam teaches that, if we can make a difference through our actions, we should try to do so. If we can't act, but can make a difference through our words, then we should try to do so. And if we can't do that (eg if it's not safe to speak out), then we can still hold the knowledge and our own feelings inside, and make a difference within our own hearts.

Even small actions carry ripples outward. A single name on a petition might not seem like much, but when there are 10,000 names, that's harder for the world to ignore. A kind word to a person struggling with grief can help them get through the day, take care of their family and keep going. Making a single spending decision based on ethics might only be a few pounds going to a local shop instead of a multinational corporation, but when there are thousands of people spending their few pounds locally, local businesses start to feel the benefits.

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Thanks @Scirocco youre right, it’s so important to remember our small actions do have an impact

mids2019 · 20/10/2024 20:32

I think people do have a compassion for their fellow humans and everyone is aware of the civilian suffering in all sides of this conflict.

However to get appreciable donations people need to be convinced they are not taking a side in a conflict and their donations would be used in an entirely humanitarian way.

I think a lot of the international charities are basically focusing on the suffering on children in the region and perhaps that is the best way to look at this removing the cause of the suffering from aid requests so that it shows charities are neutral in conflict situations. I think a challenge is to ensure aid organisations can operate in away that can be separate from Hamas, a proscribed terrorist organsiation. People are more than willing to help those in need but may have queries if they think aid distribution is being handled by a terrorist organisation. How for instance do you stop medical and food aid falling into the hands of Hamas miltants?

OhMaria2 · 20/10/2024 18:28

SunriseMonsters · 19/10/2024 21:53

people like you

Excuse me?

It's disgusting sentiment. Imagine if people had had that attitude in the 30s!

Original poster

Scirocco · 20/10/2024 18:24

Limesodaagain · 20/10/2024 17:27

I will definitely remember the innocent individuals like Sha’aban and Hind whose names are known to us and whose suffering has come to represent the suffering of their whole community.

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Thank you. JazakAllah khair.

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Limesodaagain · 20/10/2024 17:27

Scirocco · 20/10/2024 15:37

As I've previously said, there are things all of us can do to make a difference. A name on a petition, an act of kindness to another person, thinking about our spending decisions, even just seeing and remembering what has happened. It might not feel like a big thing, but all the little things add up.

Something people in these situations often say is that they (we) feel forgotten. The main thing I'd ask everyone - as someone with loved ones in Palestine, both alive and dead - is what so many people have asked before me, in similar situations: Remember us. Remember them. Please.

I will definitely remember the innocent individuals like Sha’aban and Hind whose names are known to us and whose suffering has come to represent the suffering of their whole community.

Auvergne63 · 20/10/2024 16:51

SunriseMonsters · 19/10/2024 22:59

Islam teaches that, if we can make a difference through our actions, we should try to do so

Well, we're certainly witnessing the "difference" it can make play out when we look at the barbaric regimes that are governed by this religious doctrine. Like the vast majority of societies governed by religious regimes throughout history, the poor people subjected to them live in brutal and cruel conditions and have pretty miserable lives compared to those who have been freed from religion being imposed on their societies and political institutions. That isn't a coincidence.

You appear to conflate being a Muslim and being an Islamist. Two different things.
I am an atheist myself, by the way. No religion is, inherently, bad. It is the interpretation of it by men with an agenda that has and still does corrupt it.
If being religious ( not extremist) provides people with guidance and comfort, who are you to deny them this? I find this attitude deeply intolerant.

Auvergne63 · 20/10/2024 16:29

Elopelo · 19/10/2024 22:55

Sometimes I think what could possibly be worse than what Israel is doing right now… then I see certain views being expressed, which try to justify or cover up or deflect these very actions of Israel and that’s when it hits me… in a terribly perverse way- worse than all the bombings and burnings and butchering of innocent people- are these views held by actual human beings. It seems like far from having the right to their land, the right to life, the right to freedom and security and happiness, the Palestinians don’t even have the right to suffer or lament? Their suffering has to be compared to others? Their suffering has to be diluted by considering the suffering of others? For God’s sake, if you have such hatred/indifference to the Palestinians, please please please stay away from these threads.

It angers me to know there are people who refuse to see Palestinians as humans. They don't matter to them. They may say that it is terrible what is happening; there is always a "but" following that statement.

elozabet · 20/10/2024 16:07

scirrico
I think many of us do these things already. I just don't think they make an impact, that's why I suggested it was helplessness rather than apathy. Plus I question why the situation in Congo for example gets less support. Both are awful situations. I do think it's because of Isreal being involved.

In this particular situation it doesn't help that both sides have committed atrocities so I wouldn't support either side politically.

So I question your use of the word 'apathy' as I don't think it's apathy.

Original poster

Scirocco · 20/10/2024 15:37

As I've previously said, there are things all of us can do to make a difference. A name on a petition, an act of kindness to another person, thinking about our spending decisions, even just seeing and remembering what has happened. It might not feel like a big thing, but all the little things add up.

Something people in these situations often say is that they (we) feel forgotten. The main thing I'd ask everyone - as someone with loved ones in Palestine, both alive and dead - is what so many people have asked before me, in similar situations: Remember us. Remember them. Please.

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