Hamas leader Sinwar dead

@SharonEllis thanks for the kind words. My stepmother was forever thankful for her opportunities in England. She (together with my father serving in the armed forces) moved to Germany with the possibility of staying there in the late 80s, but she was not happy.

In the years before her passing, we did get to visit her original home area (their house is still standing, now subdivided into 3 appts) in southern Poland. She spoke some Polish, and I won't say any more other than it was not a pleasant trip.

Absolutely agree that the death of Sinwar was nothing but a positive, I don't think anyone is denying that. I also agree that his body needed to be shown as proof, just like Sadam Hussein's capture needed to be seen. I guess people are now querying whether the tactics that were used in Gaza, which have contributed to the huge death toll amongst the civilian population especially children, was warranted. I think it would be remiss of anyone not to question and interrogate this.

Well said israelilefty

Why is it a PR fail to show Sinwar? For a start, the main reason to show the pictures would be so that people actually believe he was killed. He was such a secret fugitive that rumours he had died circulated before, simply because he wasn't in touch with anyone. It would have been very easy to deny he was missing for a significant time.

I know that Arabic twitter is attempting to laud him as a hero, but I would actually think that it's pretty embarrassing for Hamas that the mighty Sinwar died alone, and especially in possession of fake ID (taken from an UNRWA teacher who has been in Egypt for months), 40,000 shekels, and a packet of Mentos. I would be absolutely furious if my kids were starving and here was the person who had failed to protect me, with fake ID, sweets, a protective vest and unlimited cash. It's ironic that his death was so insignificant that the soldiers didn't even check his identity until the following day. He didn't even fall to some top commando unit - according to Israeli news reports the relevant shot was fired by a new recruit who hadn't even begun their military service on 7/10/23.

But above all it's a colossal strategic asset and PR win for Netanyahu. He has the 'victory' photo that will possibly serve as an off-ramp from the war if the international community plays its cards right. It's hard to imagine any other goal for the IDF in Gaza other than returning the hostages. Sinwar's body may serve as a bargaining chip for the bodies of soldiers held by Hamas. Hezbollah is on a back foot after losing its leadership. Iran is waiting for Israel's response. This is a very significant opportunity to negotiate an end to the war.

I think you've completely misunderstood the complexity of this war.

@EasterIssland We’ve been told time after time that he was underground having the best live whilst Palestinians were dying and that’s why it was needed so strong bombs to be thrown as hamas was hiding in tunnels. And it’s not been the reality. This at least is not the reality of his last day.

Exactly. If it's a PR fail, it's a massive fail as it doesn't work in their favour. So whatever lies they've been telling us, we can see this is not entirely true and the need for heavy bombing isn't the right course of action.

Thank you for the reference.I'm glad she found a happy home here.

... to follow up ... i.e., very similar to what we see unfolding in the West Bank ... not genocide, but "just" state sponsored ethnic cleansing.

My stepmother was one those Germans forcibly relocated after WWII. Her family is mentioned in this book: Orderly and Humane: The Expulsion of the Germans After the Second World War https://www.amazon.co.uk/Orderly-Humane-Expulsion-Germans-Second/dp/0300198205

They moved to near Munich initially, but it was very difficult there, and a few years later they very happily moved to England. She had extended family that managed to stay in Poland for a few years, but in the end they too were forced out too by the incomers, i.e., very similar to what we see unfolding in the West Bank

That must be a painful history. But as you say not every devastating conflict is a genocide.

Absolutely. I suspect a lot of people just don't know and it wasn't part of their history curriculum.
Incidentally Dresden, where my mother was born, was bombed to bits with thousands of casualties by the allies towards the end of the war and never termed a genocide (as it wasn't) just as today's war isn't either.

This will be a big test for Netanyahu, almost all the allies including the US and Germany are calling on him to let this be the pivotal moment to end the war and bring home the hostages. Let the next steps be a diplomatic move.

Yeah see that annoys me.

EVERY life is precious. It isn’t a numbers game. And frankly just because Israel had the iron dome doesn’t mean they weren’t being bombarded before.

You forgot to mention the part about Hamas wanting to wipe Israel off the face of the planet.

i don’t support either side because both are wrong and have done atrocious things. It’s the one sided linear hardline view I struggle with.

And for reference before Hamas it was the Palestinian Liberation Army so the names and tactics change but this isn’t a new thing.

@Newbutoldfather I agree with a lot you've written except of course that Israel bears no responsibility for the high civilian death toll and linked to that of course is their Dahiya Doctrine which I don't agree with either.
I think people will have felt optimist that Sinwar's death might change the direction of Israel's Govt but clearly it isn't and we are getting headlines like this
10 Likud MKs to participate in conference next week near Sderot calling to 'resettle Gaza' | The Times of Israel

Overall no. This last year of conflict - absolutely yes.

It definitely comes across that way.

Yup,

Whilst I have criticised Israel in many ways for their conduct since 7/10 (and before), the killing of Sinwar, just like Nasrallah, was a good thing for Israel, the West and, ultimately, the Palestinians themselves.

Although a bright and, in some ways principled man, he had ultimately forgotten any distinction between civilians and soldiers and was a cold blooded terrorist.

The other thing I can’t stand is this idea of Israel killing more civilians, so being somehow worse than the terrorists they are fighting, If you choose to fight an asymmetric war and use civilians as human shields, it is you that is responsible for a high civilian death toll.

Having said that, Israel need a clear war aim in Gaza and a plan for the post war settlement that is acceptable to the Palestinians (not Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran) and the rest of the Middle East.

And, as I always say, Netanyahu and his Jewish theocratic supporters need to go.

But killing Sinwar should be a cause for unbridled celebration.

Let's tally up the deaths of Palestinians before Hamas even existed and it might lead us to believe that Israel have intended death and destruction from the beginning.

@SharonEllis Nobody thinks it's a "gotcha" . It's just a discussion.

What an extraordinary discussion. As ever Israel can't do right for doing wrong. Do people not think that over 12 months Sinwar might move around, that Hamas commanders might at times be more operational than others. That the concept of a human shield is not literally a phalanx of people standing permanently shield-like around the person they are protecting. Noone suggested Hamas commanders IN Gaza were living their best lives - the one in Qatar are obviously the ones getting a bit more benefit from their wealth. Why so weird that soldiers would be pursuing Hamas fighters and discover one of them is Sinwar. Its really not the gotcha some people seem to think it is.

Did this really start on 7/10?

And without lying (not saying about this but about many things they’ve lied about in the past)

We’ve been told time after time that he was underground having the best live whilst Palestinians were dying and that’s why it was needed so strong bombs to be thrown as hamas was hiding in tunnels. And it’s not been the reality. This at least is not the reality of his last day.

He was hiding underground in tunnels though, using the group of hostages that included Hersch as human shields. When their condition became too poor, he had them killed and as Israel closed in he attempted to flee.
So yes he did take great pains to keep himself safe while civilians died. He just failed at it in the end.

I'm actually finding today's tone quite funny. Yesterday there was a bit of a stunned silence on social media, and today there's all remarkably similar copium posts.

"Had they not released the footage they'd be accused of lying and cover ups. Overall best to be open about it, terrorist supporters are always going to spin it anyway."

If only they applied that to everything.

We’ve been told time after time that he was underground having the best live whilst Palestinians were dying and that’s why it was needed so strong bombs to be thrown as hamas was hiding in tunnels. And it’s not been the reality. This at least is not the reality of his last day.