Hamas leader Sinwar dead

I think regarding the Sinwar in tunnels thing - he was at different points as he moved around and in other countries. There are verified pictures of him in different places including tunnels. Yeah he was found ‘out in the open’ when he was killed but he wasn’t there the whole time.

It’s probably also hard to seek retribution when you started the war as clearly the case with Germany in WW2. And Japan for entering and bombinh Pearl Harbour.

The 'cards' are offers of international support in negotiations with Israel, eventually leading to a an independent state for the Palestinians alongside Israel. Also money and support to rebuild. And finally, amnesty and personal pay-off for individuals who hand over the hostages and give up terrorism.

These have been offered before, but refused by Palestinian leaders and fighters who care more about destroying Israel than about the wellbeing and future of their people. The hope is that new strongmen, new leaders will make a different choice. With the powerful stranglehold of Hamas so diminished, they may feel able to make that choice to work towards a future alongside Israel, where the personal cost was previously too high.

What then was the point you were trying to make with: "He alone is the one to address your anger to when the term 'collateral damage' is used, not MN posters." ?

Generally speaking, I think anyone using such callous and dismissive language outside of an operational plan/analysis should be criticised, including people posting on parenting forums.

People post dismissively on this site, using this language to minimise the suffering of innocent people and to hurt those of us who actually care and have loved ones in the region - the same language used by a terrorist and mass murderer. People should expect better from each other and themselves. And if people are going to insist on continuing to use such language, knowing who else uses it and the harm it causes... well, that says a lot about them.

I agree but that's not my point and you know it.

That's not the point she's making is it. Wow the wilful misunderstanding.

Hardly a decent baseline to which the rest of humanity should aspire. People should aim to be better than that. If they find themselves viewing human lives with the same disregard as someone like that, they should probably get therapy.

The fact that he said it and dismissed the lives of ordinary Palestinians, leading to untold suffering illustrates that he cared not one jot about them.

I like to see that argument used in court too.

"But Sinwar did it too" doesn't make it ok.

Speechless.

A

I don't know maybe Israel will want to continue funding Hamas and rebuild them

@Newbutoldfather
"Endless war suits his ( Netanyahu's) personal agenda."

A thought that had crossed my mind, is that maybe Netanyahu wants to deliver up such a massive blow to Hamas and Hezbollah that he couldn't be seen as anything but a national hero. He would be the man who not only stands up to his enemies, but crushes them as well.

If can then sell the idea to the Israeli electorate that he has been the hero of the hour, then there could well be less enthusiasm for him to face those charges of corruption. I mean, who wants to prosecute someone over a few million shekels when they have just "saved the nation"?

Just a thought.

The Guardian obit references Sinwar's OWN words. He alone is the one to address your anger to when the term 'collateral damage' is used, not MN posters.

And people on here have described the children of Gaza as "collateral damage it's war" with a virtual shrug of the shoulders and other horrible descriptions.
See they agree with Sinwar and that's why some of us find it repulsive.

I must admit Netanyahu doesn’t seem to want an ‘off ramp’ to me. Ultimately, unless he can bring some kind of a ‘famous’ victory, he will lose power and it will be back to a criminal trial and possibly jail.

Endless war suits his personal agenda.

@israelilefty wrote
"But above all it's a colossal strategic asset and PR win for Netanyahu. He has the 'victory' photo that will possibly serve as an off-ramp from the war if the international community plays its cards right. "

What are those cards that the international community should be playing to provide an "off-ramp" to this awful conflict ?

All evidence to date illustrates that Netanyahu is impervious to any entreaties from the international community. The other "cards" that the west have (embargo, sanctions and financial restrictions ) have certainly not been played so far and it's very hard to imagine them suddenly being brought to bear now.

I hope I'm wrong, but I can't see the international community suddenly applying any meaningful pressure to either side that will cause them to stop. I feel that it's just going to be more of the same carnage until Netanyahu has decided that he's got what he wants. As I said, I dearly hope I'm wrong.

Israelilefty, are those cards to be played the ones I listed above, or do you think that there are others that the international community possess ?

No I can, but not many people care about it. They can’t get basic aid through, theres a cholera outbreak, estimates of 150k dead. It would be nice of international bodies, the UN, the USA made this a priority.

I am not a law expert, far from it, but a genocide is defined, partly, by intent.
It could be argued that, by deliberately depriving the Palestinian people of food and water as well as of medical help ( meds and health workers), the Israeli government's intention is to kill civilians en masse therefore they are committing genocide.

From the Guardian obituary this afternoon: 'According to a June 2024 Wall Street Journal report, Sinwar described the huge Palestinian losses in a wartime message to Hamas leaders in Qatar as “necessary sacrifices”.' Gaza and Palestinians are all the better without his 'leadership'.

It's disgusting that they won't let the people get medical assistance. Evil.

It pretty scary that an occupying force has the power to do this, especially one that has been accused of so many war crimes and have a decades long history of breaking international law as ruled by the ICJ recently. That is before you factor in the impact that the loss of medical workers will have on a healthcare system that has already been repeatedly attacked and is being denied access basic medications and medical equipment.