Hamas leader Sinwar dead

People believe what they want to believe.

Maybe it is very important for some of the people in Gaza that see him this way to believe that somebody cares and that somebody is fighting for them? Because often it appears that they have been forgotten, and it is painful to be forgotten.

And that there is some significance and dignity in death? Seeing it as a final act of defiance in the face of cruelty and control.

It is easy to create a narrative out of moments, picking the ones that stick most in your mind or are consistent with your view, and ignoring everything in-between. And when you are desperate and have been forgotten, it is a short term survival tool, that enables you to go on. Perhaps many of these people are ordinary people who are trying to survive, who given different circumstances, wouldn’t see things this way. Maybe they don’t support his terror, it is more that they are blinded to some of his actions.

I can’t see that as a reason for him to continue

Not angry at support for him by clueless westerners with nothing to lose, just hoping that those actually on the ground who want peaceful coexistence overcome those who don't.

If you want to stay in la la land and get angry at posters who point out what's being said and how things are perceived by so many in the world outside mumsnet, then that's up to you. It's not going to change the reality of the matter.

I said the same thing before that Israel releasing the footage of his last moments was a huge PR fail. They should not have done that for this specific reason. Was he glorified before his death? Yes. But for a long time even staunch supporters were angry that he was hiding in the tunnels. The footage of his last moments is now depicted as a final act of defiance against Israel. People don't like to hear this on mumsnet, but it IS how he is seen. Not only amongst Palestinians but by so many others too. As said, go read BBC or sky or any other mainstream UK news site and you will see the same.

The comments on BBC’s Instagram page are terrifying.

He’s worshipped by so many as a hero.

You can practically hear the propaganda narrative...

"He stood alone... fought to the end... fought and died as 'one of the people'... a tank couldn't kill him alone... in his last moments he fought a drone, armed only with a stick..."

Ffs, the guy was a mass murderer scurrying around between hiding places carrying a packet of Mentos and a fake ID. But give it a week and people will be treating him like Robin f*cking Hood.

Well, an example of posting that appeared to minimise or excuse the killing of innocent people in Palestine that springs to mind would be when, when someone was talking about harm coming to innocent people, your response focused solely on Israeli citizens and came across as considering only Israeli civilians to be innocent, when it was quite clear that the poster was talking about innocent people being killed in Palestine. The language used was consistent with how people express the idea that no Palestinian can be innocent. Maybe it wasn't meant that way, but your posts have come across as very supportive of Israeli forces who are killing innocent civilians, and dismissive of the death and suffering being inflicted upon innocent people in Palestine by Israeli forces.

Fanatics like Sinwar who are willing to sacrifice their own lives are all too willing to sacrifice everyone else’s life too.

The drone video released by the IDF of his last minutes and the details of the autopsy have no doubt fuelled the hero fire.

• The drone video showed that he was alone and wounded in a combat zone- not a humanitarian zone or under a hospital or in a UN school or surrounded by hostages or Gazan women & children as human shields.
• The tank shell hitting the building he was in, did not kill him.
• Although gravely wounded, the cause of death was a bullet to the head.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/sinwar-died-of-gunshot-to-head-says-doctor-who-oversaw-autopsy/

It is a PR fumble to have released this information as it will only strengthen Hamas.

There is no denying that Sinwar was willing to die for his cause. The problem is that he expected other people to die for it as well.

Leaders will often try to portray themselves as a hero, look at Netanhyahu’s deluded and embarrassing speech about good fighting evil, when he is responsible for the killing of tens of thousands of innocent people.

Even in Israel, and many other countries with a ‘democracy’, it seems people are taken in by posturing over substance, and over and over again we have leaders who are good at putting on a show, but do damage and fall short on delivery.

I don’t think there is anything heroic about killing innocent people for your cause, if your objective is short sighted and your willing to trample over anyone in your way, then it’s easier to achieve, but it is self defeating and doesn’t provide a real win for anyone.

There would have been no way for Israel to kill Sinwar that didn't result in certain groups hailing him a hero/martyr.
There's absolutely blatant support of Hamas and the eradication of Israel all over X, for instance. I think Israel did entirely the right thing disregarding the likely reaction from that particular sector of society.

Dragging Germany into any discussion on the establishment of Israel is very very dodgy ground.

No, bringing Nazis into a discussion on Israel is very dodgy ground. A discussion about the impact of conflicts on civilians is entirely fine.

Hate not to be positive but unfortunately there'll always be a son or nephew waiting in the wings to take over.

Can you provide some evidence of this? I'm not sure where I 'clearly seem to think killing Palestinian civilians is justified'....? Please enlighten me.

Oh FFS, own the crimes of the country you support.

And grow up. Israel is killing Palestinians on an unbelievable scale. Why not condemn it?

They have been failed by so many https://www-aljazeera-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/10/16/missing-in-action-where-has-palestinian-authority-been-since-october-7?amp_js_v=0.1&amp_gsa=1#webview=1

I'm not an Israeli citizen. I can't own it.

This chap is quite vocal.

History as well as current understanding tells us that the best future for the Palestinians would be for their leaders and fighters to turn away from terrorism.

There are plenty of other 'ex-terrorist' people who have written books about this.

Israel is a democracy and when the war is over elections will take place and a new government will be elected.

But Israelis voted in this one. Own it.

Israel as a nation is born from Zionist terrorism of the late 19thc and early 20thc, of western imperialism and post war settlements (x2), on colonisation, and ethnic cleansing.

Dragging Germany into any discussion on the establishment of Israel is very very dodgy ground.

Suggesting the Palestinians should willingly accept the death and destruction wrought on them by Israel is obscene.

And you know it.